Hello,
Finally getting around to putting up some more/better lighting in my shop area. Originally had four old porcelain single-bulb incandescent fixtures, put up because they were fast and cheap, I’m sure. I found some ready-made cover plates w/ duplex outlets in them at the local big box store, and the plan is to pull the porcelain fixtures, and put the plates/receptacles up, then hang a number of 4′ fluorescent fixtures, pluggin them into the ceiling receptacles. Sounds easy, and should be, but…
The wonderful person who wired this before cut the grounds off *very* short inside the box, and just twisted them together w/ a pair of pliers apparently (is that even legal?!?). Granted, they were using simple two-wire incandescent fixtures w/ no place to land a ground, but now I’m trying to attach a pig-tail ground wire from there to the ground terminal on the outlets… not fun a’tall.
So far I’ve been able, by hook or by crook, to cut the jacket back on on the Romex and get access to just enough of the ground wires to be able to make a decent connection on most of the boxes. There’s at least one (so far) that I just can’t get enough of the grounds into the box to make any sort of connection beyond twisting them together. I’m not really liking the idea of having to cut out a lot of drywall (whoops, should have mentioned the ceiling is finished… drywall w/ a coat of primer, nothing fancy) and putting in junction boxes, etc. Are there any other alternatives?
TIA,
Monte
Replies
You should be able to untwist 'em, add a third uninsulated or green wire (a pigtail), twist all three together again with linesman's pliers, and add a wire nut. Connect the pigtail to your fixture/outlet.
Are you using the green ground connectors where the pigtail wire extends out the end. If you have enough wire to make a twisted connection, you should be able to run any length to make the connection to the receptacle. There should be a ground connector to hold the twisted wires tightly together. Of course, it is fun. All type of electric wiring is fun -- if you enjoy doing it.
Edited 1/28/2006 8:53 am ET by tinkerer2
I guess the problem I'm having is that the person who wired this cut the ground wires back *awful* short. As in, I'm mildly impressed he managed to get them twisted together at all. Most of the boxes have enough of the romex sticking in so that I've been able to peel the insulation back and and gain an extra 1/2-1". But there's one box that so far maneuvering a third wire up in there along w/ my big Klein lineman's pliers is kickin' my butt... the one good thing about this situation is that things like this make me thank my lucky stars that pretty much all the electrical work I ever did was industrial/utility type stuff... not this goofy residential stuff :D Conduit and cable trays never looked so good!Guess I'll keep after it 'til I wear it down and force it to submit ;)Thanks,Monte
...don't ya just love Romex??????
aren't there any "courtesy " loops in those cables
Hah! I wish. The previous owner was a contractor... so the more I dig into things, the more it seems things were done on the cheap... boxes, panels, etc. scabbed off of old remodel jobs, etc. Solidly built, don't get me wrong, just cheap. One of those 'live-n-learn' affairs.
Hi Milanuk,There are connectors called "Wago's" at electrical wholesale houses and work great for connecting to short wires. The four and six 'holers' seem to be the only ones I use, as one of the two solve 99.9% of short wire problems and no general/electrical contractor should be without 'em.While most of us contractors are cheap, some of us still think about the next guy that has to deal with our work. <grin>hope this helps,
Mark
I take it you mean something like these puppies here:http://www.wago.us/83.htm?L1=/products/140.htm&HL1=1&L2=/products/132.htm&HL2=133&L3=/products/141.htm&HL3=150&B=/products/150.htmI must say, I've never seen/used those, but they sure look like they'd make life a lot easier!!! What's the downside? Barring price (I'm sure) they look like they'd beat the heck out of wire nuts under *normal* circumstances, much less when one is stuck w/ short wires...TIA,Monte
I mean exactly those, why I didn't think of a link . . . I dunno.
I use the orange 4 hole, and the purple 6 hole ones. Which work on #14 and #12 AWG (wire size.)
They make them for either stranded or solid wire. I've only used the solid core ones. More costly than wire-nuts, but invaluable for solving problems like yours. I typically grip the wire with needle-nose pliers and shove the wago onto it.
Also, installing the 'pig-tail' into the wago before it gets crammed into the corner of the electrical box helps.EDIT: What Mike above said re: crimp connectors on ground wires, they're cheaper, if you can get the crimpers in the box to 'squarsh' it.
hope this helps,
Mark
Edited 1/27/2006 8:34 am ET by Mark Haley
Cool beans. I'll call around some of the electrical supply houses today to see if they have them in stock (knowing my luck, they probably will never have heard of them... oh well, Newark carries them if all else fails). FWIW, the boxes are non-metallic... old brown ones, almost like a fiberboard material? Anyway, thanks for the help!
You might have to rent a wire stretcher. They are usually stored alongside the board stretchers and striped paint in the rental shop. Ha!
I would pull the romex out of the box and crimp on a uninsulated ferrule to 2 bare ground conductors.
1 wire to ground the box and another to tie in your light grounds.
Just pull the romex back in the box and you have 2 good ground wires (to code)
Scott[email protected]
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Did I mention it's a finished ceiling... granted, just drywall w/ a coat of primer over it, but cutting out drywall to work around a wiring goof isn't something I wanted to do (or I would have already just put in another junction box and been done w/ it). I've got the Wago wall-nuts in hand; I'll be trying them out tonight.Thanks,Monte
You don't mention if the boxes are metal or plastic. If metal, they *should* be already grounded (easy to test) and you could just pigtail off them. (Not code, but, in a pinch, ya do what ya gotta do!) If not . . . Ground wires do not need to be insulated at the connection. Some electricians use crimp connectors instead of wire nuts -- just copper tubes that they crimp tightly around the twist. Should be available at some Big Box near you. You could add a grounding pigtail to the existing twist and crimp it in, and don't forget to ground the box as well as the fixture (if it's metal). That way, you don't even have to mess with undoing the stubby twists.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
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