Replies

1. 
   mike_b | May 23, 2006 02:42am | #1

   You can find back panel cutter bits most anywhere that sells router bits or on any of the online catalog sites. And, for probably not a ton more than a good stile and rail bit, or set, you can probably have 220 installed and do the dados and tenons on your new saw. You'd probably want to get a dado set, but you can get by without a tenoning jig, or make your own for now -- something simple that rides the fence. Anyway, good luck with your cabinet doors.

2. 
   ring | May 23, 2006 07:49am | #2

   Doc,

   I'd suggest you use a straight tongue-and-groove set to make the frames on your router table.  I'm sure there are lots of them on the market.  Mine is Amana.  As far as raising the panels is concerned, if you want a simple rabbet around the rear, you can do it with any number of rabbeting bits in the router, even using the same bits that cut the joints.  I'd chamfer the "corner" with a hand plane.  If you want a decorative profile on the rear of the panels, you'll need a specific bit for it.

   DR

1. 
   Doc | May 23, 2006 12:48pm | #3

   The tongue and groove bit and a rabbeting bit were exactly what I was thinking of doing.  Will the TandG bit create enough glue surface for the rail and stile?  I know the cope and stick bits create twice the glue surface because of the slot cut and the profile cut.  I don't want the joints to start to seperate 6 months after they've been up.  Any thoughts?

1. 
   charlesm | May 23, 2006 03:00pm | #4

   Doc,

   The Freud 99-036 Adjustable T&G bit set was designed just for this

   application. You can tweak the fit of the joint if you like and the

   tongue cutter has opposing shear angles for a clean cross crain cut on

   the ends of the rails. The joint is the same strength as the standard

   R&S bits.

   View Image

   Charles M

   Freud America, Inc.

2. 
   ring | May 23, 2006 04:08pm | #5

   Doc,

   In the days before I had a shaper I made hundreds of kitchen doors using the router table and bits like this.  Most sets have a 3/8" depth of cut.  In my experience that joint was perfectly strong as long as the fit was snug.  When setting up the double bit to make the tongues, you should shim the space between the cutters to get a perfect fit.  (You have no way of adjusting the groove, only the tongue).   The joints should fit snugly with hand pressure only.  Too tight and it will squeeze all the glue out; too loose is obviously no good...

   If this is your first time doing it, practice some joints first.  You especially need to get the technique down for cutting the tongues on the end of the rails.  Use a big square block to push them past the cutter on the router table, keeping them 90° to the fence and stopping tear-out on the exit.  Your fence needs to be zero-clearance.

   I should qualify this by saying that these bits are fine for normal sized kitchen doors, with rails and stiles at least 2" wide.  They are not enough for very large doors, or where there's heavy glass instead of the wood panel.

   DR

3. 
   joinerswork | May 23, 2006 04:09pm | #6

   What's up, Doc?

   It is easy enough to work a tenon of any length onto the ends of your door rails.  Just mortise the stiles to accomodate the size/length of the tenons, align one cheek of the tenon with the groove for the panel;  if you use 1/4" thick tenons, they will align perfectly with the groove.  Leave a "stub" haunch on the tenon to fill the groove on the ends of the stiles.  A 5/16" tenon is stronger, but you will have to widen the haunch area of the groove in the stile to accomodate the extra 1/16".

   If you rabbet the panels, seasonal movement will push the frames apart as the panel swells, or show a crack on the sides as they shrink.  Better to raise, or bevel them on the backside, as was done in period work.  A raised panel cutter, used on panel stock thin enough to not get into the "field" area of the cutter, will work just fine, or you can saw the edges on tablesaw or radial saw, and clean up by hand, or if you don't have too many, it may be just as well to hand plane them altogether.

   Nyeeaah, I shoulda toined left at Albequoirkey!

   Regards,

   Ray Pine

1. 
   Doc | May 24, 2006 04:42am | #7

   I understand the concern with the rabbeted panels, but wouldn't I be alright using rabbets if the panels are made of MDF?  I built a built-in cabinet, and I plan on making flat panel doors, stiles rails out of poplar and panel out of MDF.  It will all be painted.  The kitchen cabinets (which I plan on just putting new face frames and door) I will make the rails, stiles, and panels out of wood.  First the built in.  I already have the insert recessed into the wall with shelves, and the face frames built, installed, and primed.  It's just the building of the doors that I'm stuck on.  Thank goodness my better half is patient with me.  The kitchen is her favorite room, so I need to handle the kitchen project a little more quickly than the current project.

1. 
   ring | May 24, 2006 07:43am | #8

   Doc,

   If the panels are MDF you don't need to worry about expansion and can fit them exactly into the grooves of rails and stiles.  If the panels are solid wood, you still can put that same rabbet on the back side, just make the panel dimension narrower than a tight fit.  Depending on the width of the door, you will need to allow for expansion and contraction as with all solid panels.  You didn't say what wood they will be, so it may vary.  But for instance, I leave about 3/16" free-play on a 12" wide maple panel.  Many people use small center pins or little foam balls in the grooves to keep the panels centered, that is, to keep the expansion / contraction cycles symmetrical on both sides of the frame.

   DR

2. 
   Doc | May 24, 2006 12:52pm | #9

   Either maple or birch were my two choices, depending on pricing whenever I get around to making them.  I was planning on using the spaceballs as spacers to allow for the panel expansion.  I think I will go with the Tongue and Groove router set.  It seems to be the easiest route right now for what I have set up.  I can always try different techniques using my table saw in the future.  As far as the panels, I think I'll do a rabbet on the MDF panels, and raised panel bit on the back side of the wood panels.  Thanks for your help.

3. 
   mike_b | May 24, 2006 01:59pm | #10

   If it hasn't been mentioned before, I suggest you consider light-weight MDF for your panels. TruPan is one of the brands I'm familiar with, but I'm sure there are others. It machines easily and takes paint very nicely. And, your doors won't weigh a ton.

4. 
   Doc | May 25, 2006 04:16am | #11

   I'm not familiar with that product.  Thanks for the tip.

3. 
   Troy | May 25, 2006 07:52am | #12

   Just a thought could you just do flat panels that fit in the grooves then you could just use ply for the panels. Of course it would be flat on both sides but it would work. Or you could put a rabbet on one side of the panel so that the panel would be flush on the back of the door and have a reveal on the front.'

   Troy

4. 
   SantaBarbaraSawDust | Jun 02, 2006 07:46am | #13

   Doc,

   This Shaker flat panel set by Marc Summerfeld (CMT) might interest you....

   the Sommerfeld Phenolic Router Table, Saw Blade Carrying Cases, Mini Raised Panels Made Easy...

   Terry
   Santa Barbara,CA