I need to flatten my workbench top. It is 60″x31″x2-1/4″ maple. I may need to purchase the right plane to do this job, since my largest plane is a LN No. 4. I could probably use a larger, flattening plane for future projects anyway. I’ve heard there is a way to do this with a router straddled between two flat boards. Any help would be deeply appreciated.
I would guess this question has been asked before, but I didn’t have much luck doing a search. If someone can help me with proper search criteria, that would be appreciated too.
Replies
Sounds like the perfect excuse to call Clarence @ finetoolj.com and get a #7
;-)
Pat
You could top it with a sacrificial layer of MDF or the like which would save a lot of work and be repeatable. Say a 3mm. sheet.
Try this link:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=58
It should be what you're looking for....
Jeff
You've all answered my questions. So a #7 might be a good investment. I like the feel of working on the workbench, but I might use MDF in my finishing area. The link about the router answered a lot of questions.Thanks for your replies!
Edited 3/14/2007 6:03 pm ET by handymom
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ProjectsAndDesign/ProjectsAndDesignArticle.aspx?id=3338
Been there and done that with the LN #7. My maple top is 2-1/2 x 3/4 inch boards laminated to produce the top slab. One big problem...when I laminated the boards, I didn't pay attention to grain orientation. When I planed the top recently with my #7, I had significan tearout and had to complete the job with a disk sander, which was not my goal. Cross-grain planing did not help. I had the mouth set tight. One thing I did not think to do was put my York pitch frog on the plane to get the higher degree of cutting angle. I watched David Charlesworth flatten a Lie-Nielsen bench with his 5-1/2. Nary a tear; but LN might be careful enough to lay up the tops with all boards in the same grain direction!
Edited 3/14/2007 7:23 pm ET by Handrubbed
Hmm, my workbench was inherited from my dad. It has a stamp on the bottom. Kind of hard to read but Wood Welde, Bally Block Co., Bally, PA.. I don't know anything about the company or whether they would know enough to orient the boards in the same grain direction. Thanks for bringing up the point.
Apparently, they're still in business. Google 'Wood Welded, Bally Block Co' and you'll find a bunch of links.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Thanks for checking on that workbench info. I did the same after my last post. I'll have to contact them.
I've gotten two responses back from Wood Welded. I must not have been able to explain wood grain direction and tear out problems well enough, because he couldn't really answer the question.I think I'll start making the jig for my router!
I didn't correct for grain direction on my bench and I flattened it with my LN#7. Near the end I kept the blade very sharp and only took thin shavings. It took a long time but my hand planing skills probably went from a 2 to 7.
The bench is smooth (used to be smoother) and it is quite flat.
If I ever get a new bench I will likely buy it (maybe LN's) and take the top to a shop with a large sander when it needed to be resurfaced.
If I was you I might look for a local shop with a large drum sander. The router jig works also.
TWG.
Improving my hand planing skills would definitely be a plus. Thanks for letting me know that it is possible, if care is taken.My hesitation with taking apart the workbench is 1) it is extremely heavy and 2) there is a 4" apron on the side with the vise and the other side would need to be supported if it were sent through a large sander.
Edited 3/15/2007 5:16 pm ET by handymom
Have you tried planing diagonally across the top? That way, it's not against the grain "as much" and on some woods, it makes a huge difference. Once you get to the point of taking off tissue thin shavings, the grain direction won't make as much of a difference."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 3/15/2007 6:45 pm by highfigh
I had the same problem! I did my workbench out of 4/4 ash and jatoba. I tried to flatten with a plane and some boards would tear out and some would be great. Finally broke down a rented time on a widebelt and it came out FLAT.
Scott
After reading the pervious advise, I'm not about to say they're wrong, but it's been my experience that you can get maybe 99% of the work done using an easier plane to work with.
Pre-amble first... when you've worked enough stock, you'll come to realise that grain reversal happens, frequently on the same board and occasionally along as short a span as a linear foot (elm for instance). Something on this kinda scale is excuse enough to justify getting the right tools to deal with it when it happens.
First up... a pair of winding sticks; these are priceless for finding high spots across the width of the piece and determining the degree of twist in a board. When used in conjunction with the biggest straight edge you can find (I swear by a 6ft builders spirit level), there's no excuse left for missing that annoying bump or hollow.
As for the easier plane... that has to be one of the jack planes, especially with that amount of work to do. Which one to get is entirely a matter of your preference; #5, #5 1/2, #62 or the LV bevel up panel plane, they're all much of a muchness and equally capable. The difference with the #5 1/2 over the #5 is that the plane length is slightly longerwhile the blade width is the same as the #4 1/2, #6 and #7. The main advantage of the #5 1/2 over the #7 is that you're taking the same width of shaving but working a plane that's a good few pounds lighter; far easier on you when there's a lot to do.
To tackle the job, firstly, you need to "map" out your surface; use the winding sticks and straight edge to mark all the high spots before hitting them with the plane. When all your marks have been planed off, recheck with the sticks and do it over, repeating as often as necessary.
By doing the bulk of the work by planing across the grain (straight across as well as diagonally from both sides, as opposed to along / against) you'll all but illiminate the chance of causing tear out even when taking a generous shaving. Match the agressivness of the cut to the amount of material there is to remove; there's little point taking whispy thins when there's a 1/4" to remove, yea??
By the same token, trying to shave off that last 1/32nd with a single pass to get to the line is perhaps tempting fate. If there's a lot of material to remove at the start of the job, it might be wise to invest in a proper scrub plane too; they can save a bunch of time in the long run, but they're deceptivly wild little beasties.... use them with caution.
When you're at the point where you're happily within the home streach, simply retune the plane; good sharp blade (not that you'd ever have them any other way ;) ), nice tight throat and the depth set to start makign them whispy thins, your jack's now an uber-smoother, moreso if you've gone with the #5 1/2 size range (the additional weight helps you smooth with authority).
If, when you start to smooth, you begin to encounter a tendancy towards tear out, you can resolve this in a couple of ways. There's no real substitute for a higher blade angle (personally I've found L-'s high angle frog to be a god-send) although you can achieve the same end with a back bevel on a bevel down plane, or simply a steeper secondry bevel with the bevel up planes.
Additionally, there's nothing that says you can't change the direction you're working in to deal with localised grain reversal; all you're doing there is changing your direction to suit the grain... as you gain practice, you'll learn to "read" the boards and see areas that you need to keep your eye on.
I've also heard others having some success with dampening the boards (very lightly) to soften the grain; I'd guess mineral spirits would do the job without creating a localised wet spot.
If you still have trouble despite the higher angle (and ensuring that the mouth is set as tight as you dare), and changing the direction you're working in, then you need to choose between either sanding or cabinet scraping (planing with a blade set to pretty extreme angles). I won't pretend to be an authority on scraping.. I can get by, but it's not my favourite task.. there's others here who can explain it far better than I can.. (personally I'm near convinced there's some black art attached to it.... Ahem)...
Last point... if you want to tackle something like this entirely by hand, don't let the scale of the job get you down... when it starts to become a chore (both physically and mentally), take a break... walk away for a spell and come back to it when you're up to it... Granted that in the age of power tools, doing a task like this entirely by hand has a degree of massochism attached to it, the education you gain is second only to the satisfaction you'll have at the end of the job. It gives a mean workout too... ;)
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Thanks for the post! This is the kind of information that I need a little educating. Like I said, the No. 4 is the biggest I've got. I do have a scrub plane and have successfully used both to level smaller glue-ups. I am actually pretty good with a cabinet scraper as well. I love the control it gives. I think the reason I haven't purchased a No. 7 by now is that just when I get persuaded, I get another suggestion like the No. 5-1/2. Some say the heavier the better, because all you are doing is moving it across the wood, and the weight works to your advantage. On the other hand, while I am relatively strong, some tools are easier for me to manage than others. I've tried them at the Lie-Nielsen booths at The Woodworking Shows, but I didn't really get a good feel for one over the other.I should make myself some winding sticks, and I already have a good straight edge. Maybe I should just try working on a small area and see how it goes.Thanks again!
I honestly wan't trying to put you off trying the #7... there's a time and place for it too... when you're working the last 10% of a board, cutting down gradually to take out the last of the low spots while keeping the rest of the board flat, the #7 and larger planes are in a class of their own once you get used to them...
The probs start when you try to use em too early... it can be frustrating putting all that effort into keeping the plane moving for minimal result. In situations like that, endurence is far more important than brute strength; the 5 1/2 will get the bulk of the job done just as well (when used closely with the sticks and straight edge) while helping conserve your energy (as I've found lately to my cost)...
sometimes being a trainee auld fart aint so much fun... but there are exceptions. ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I know that you were not trying to dissuade me from the #7, however, there does seem to be differing opinions. The #7 is probably the most logical addition to what I already have. On the other hand, when I hear description of the #5-1/2, I like the reasons and descriptions given. It seems that the #7 is longer and heavier and leaves a flat and finely finished surface, but it takes a lot more effort. The #5-1/2 is lighter and more aggressive; it can leave a flat surface but it takes more care. Is that close?
I think either a 5.5 or a 7 could handle this job, however, the length of the 7 or 8 makes them ideal for flattening a large surface. Also, I like the weight of the 7 b/c it creates it's own momentum and slices the high spots effortlessly. For what it's worth, my wife surprised me with the 7, and when asked, LN suggested that the 7 be my first plane.
Perhaps due to my size (6'4, 275#) I use the 7 for all types of planing and I think it's very controllable. The only other bench plane I have (recent acquisition) is a LN 4.5 which I'm getting used to.
One day perhaps I'll try the 8.
One day perhaps I'll try the 8.
show off.. ;P~Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
however, there does seem to be differing opinions.
that difference of opinion is probably the main strenght that working with hand tools has... there are no wrong answers, just differences in preference. Technically, with very few exceptions, you can pick up just about any plane you like to tackle the job, but some planes are better suited to it than others...
James covered this pretty well with a post in another thread here
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=35063.11..
It seems that the #7 is longer and heavier and leaves a flat and finely finished surface, but it takes a lot more effort. The #5-1/2 is lighter and more aggressive; it can leave a flat surface but it takes more care. Is that close?
if you bear in mind that there's gonna be exceptions for every "rule", then yea... by and large that pretty much sums it up. Technically, both planes can be tuned to be equally agressive or delicate; it's simply a matter of adjusting their frogs and blade depth to suit.
The only hard and fast rule I know of with hand planes is... provided their soles are flat, short bed planes will naturally tend to "follow" a high spot on a board (cutting on the rise, across the top and on the descent) while long bed planes will naturally "plane" over the hollows, cutting only the uppermost part of the highest spots along the length of the stroke.
For that reason, jack planes are ideal for beginning the flattening process (after the board's been scrubbed to knock down the worst of the high spots that is), while try (#6's) and jointing planes (#'s 7 & 8) are perfectly suited to getting the board perfectly flat.
Smoothing planes get away with being really short because you're using them to remove any tooling marks left during the final flattening of the board. By restricting them to taking whisper thin shavings they're not changing the shape of the board to any great extent. Instead, their even, full width shavings ensure equal stock removal from all areas of the board, refining the finish without altering the geometry...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Thanks for the information. I continue to be amazed at the all of the helpful contributors at this site. You have really helped me see the differences between these planes. You've also helped give me confidence to just go ahead and give the planes I have a try. I'll be sure to work carefully and keep checking with a straight edge and winding sticks. I think I might get a No. 7 eventually.
Mike,
Good post, that. I'll add a couple suggestions of my own. The suggestion to plane cross-grain is most helpful; to that, I'd suggest skewing the plane just a bit in the direction of the nastiest segment of tearout, so that it is slicing just a bit in the direction of the grain's inclination. As you point out, a careful reading of the grain may require short strokes, changing the "slosh" of the plane back and forth every few inches. And having the plane skewed slightly in toward the south-southeast while pushing it slightly toward the south-south west, sometimes lets one fool adjacent woods of opposing grain directions, into thinking that they are both getting their own way. If planing sideways from (south to north) still gives tearout, going sideways fron the opposite edge (north to south) sometimes helps.
Push comes to shove, there are two more hand tools that I will sometimes go to as a last resort. One is a scraper plane. What I have is a home made version of the stanley model. I like the configuration of a plane, better than the short soled, spokeshave-handled cabinet scraper, as I seem to always have a bit of a chatter problem with them. I hate idle chatter...
Absolute last resort is a toothing plane, as was used to prepare surfaces for gluing, back in the day; more or less a coffin shaped smoothing plane body, with a fine-toothed, vertically-mounted heavy blade, set for a light cut. This is scrubbed all over the nasty area, in every direction. Like a fine rasp, it leaves a rough surface of course, but as you so well put it, it is all much of a muchness, and a surface so prepared can then be scraped into submission without any of those teeth grating deep tearouts.
Regards,
Ray
Skewing the plane and watching the grain will definitely help with whatever method I use. I do have a scraper plane, so I'll definitely use that. Thanks.
handy,
Any chance of posting pics as to how bad the top is? Perhaps placing several winding sticks or straightedges to show us the depressions/hills?
I would think that the hills are what you're after and depending on their severity they might also have an influence on your stategy for flattening the entire slab with respect to vises, etc. Kinda like leveling a floor, you want it to be flat both from side to side and diagonally from corner to corner.
Just my thoughts,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/16/2007 9:41 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
I'll attempt to post a picture of my bench. The whole top is cupped, but not too badly. Just enough for me to notice when I need it to be flat!
Well, here goes. I have never posted a photo, so I have no idea how they will look.There should be two photos, the first is an overall picture of the workbench. In the second, I attempted to put a light behind a straight edge to show the cupping of the top. It dips 1/16" at the center.I would guess it has a film finish.
HM: Sounds like an excuse to buy a portable power planer. I don't know which brands are well liked, maybe someone else can give you that info and or ins and outs of using one.
Duke
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Hey dukeone,A portable power planer is one of the tools that I inherited and have yet to use. Good suggestion. Thanks.
Handymom,
I have a Clark and Williams wooden jointer plane (the 30" version) for working on large tops; I actually got it for doing sideboard tops. It is very light and has the iron bedded at 50 degrees, so it can be used for long periods and on difficult grain. It is an excellent plane, and perhaps a bit less expensive than a LN.
If the top were mine, I'd get the worst of it out of the way with a portable power plane. Then I would switch to the jointer plane going diagonal to the grain, and then with the grain. In all likelihood, this would be enough, but if not, I put the last bit of polish on the top with a very finely set smooth plane ( by finely set, I'm not talking about the throat setting, which has very little, if anything to do with the quality of the finished surface), or a scraper plane. I got my bench top very flat (which is of the utmost importance) and really smooth enough for fine furniture, which was a total waste of time, since now it is dented, scratched, gouged and stained.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Just remember that flat is a geometric concept and smooth is a surface attribute.
You can get a workbench top flat with a scrub plane. This is the fastest way to do it. You refine that flat surface with other planes, preferably longer planes that won't undo what you did with the scrub plane. Just the idea of starting out with a No. 7 makes me incredibly fatigued. If you can operate a straightedge :-) then you'll be happy you brought the top to flat with something much less exhausting than a large plane.
In no more than 45 minutes you and your scrubber should easily get the bench surface lying all in one plane ("flat"). You need a scrubber, a six-foot level (functioning as a straightedge), and a box of chalk. Once you get it flat, walk away from it for a week or two and then test it for flatness again. Nip and tuck, again with the scrubber, and then finish it off with your jointer followed by a smoother to whatever level of refinement turns you on. Get a finish on it. Hot Watco is my choice (heat it in a lidded glass jar in an electric glue pot filled with water). I'd apply it weekly for six weeks or until she won't take any more.
Edited 3/19/2007 1:02 pm ET by CStan
flat vs. smooth - got it!scrub plane first, then smoothing planes - got it!finish - don't know!
I'm not sure what the existing finish on the workbench is except that it is slightly yellowish in color over the maple. Once I flatten the top, there will still be old finish on the sides and bottom. I understand that there should be a consistent finish over the entire piece to keep it balanced. What if the old finish isn't Watco? Will it matter?
I would plane away any old finish off the top at least. You're going to lose the bulk of it in the flattening process.
You do not want a film forming finish on a workbench. Watco will build a very slight, very flexible film finish with several applications but it still works beautifully for bench tops.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have two more questions.Is there a way for me to determine the type of existing finish on my bench?If I finish it with something different, will it matter much?Does Watco have a shelf life, because I have several cans from over 5 years ago?Okay, that's three questions. Any help would be appreciated!
Handymom,
If it has an oil finish, then it really won't matter -- practically speaking -- if your follow-up oil finish matches the original. As long as the wood is protected, that's the important part. As others have mentioned, a film finish is less desirable because of the the relative lack of friction and the tendency of your work piece to slip and slide all over the bench top.
Most finishes have a shelf life; some will still work fine after the expiration date, but it's a potential problem best avoided by using a fresh, in-date finish.
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<!----><!---->James<!----><!---->
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"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
-- A.C. Clarke
Get rid of the five year old Watco.
Does the bench have what appears to be a film finish?
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