Hi,
I am looking for a machine similar to a CNC machine but with much less functionality. I import wood and am looking for a machine that will suface table top size slabs. I receive the slabs chainsaw cut, and am looking for a way to remove tool marks, flatten and semi-finish these prior to selling them.
I know they exist, but can’t seem to locate anything except a CNC machine. Anybody know of anything like this?
Thanks.
– lee –
Replies
You need an industrial sized planer, not what you will find in most production shops and certainly not in small one-man shops. At least 24" if not more, depending on what slabs you are talking about.
DR
Hi,
I have seen some CNC machines that will work very nicely, but they have so much functionality (translate high price), that they won't work. I am currently taking the slabs to a cabinet shop and having them sanded, but this too is cost prohibitive.
Your idea in my opinion, while helpful is a bit of overkill. I am looking for something simple and fairly inexpensive (under $8K).
Thanks.
- lee -
I thought the lucas mill had a router attatchment for surfacing? If not, setting up a couple rails and building a rolling bed would not take a lot of imagination or skill.
I do a LOT of slabs... I use a 3 1/2 " makita planer to take them down reasobly flat and then either a floor sander or a hard disk angle grinder to finish. Dusty , but fast.
Routing is painfully slow as is wide belt sanding by comparison.
Hitai
The Lucas Mill surfacer is made by Les Owens, the Wood Wizz guy to fit their rail setup. Works on the same principle as the wood wizz.
Don
You know Lee.
Depending on the volume of material you work with, I would probably be inclined to build my own.
Get a really, really good router and then set up an adjustable box frame that can be adjusted in a very controlled fashion.
Sort of a dedicated cnc machine. You're right that CNC possesses a LOT of additional function that you might not be / aren't interested in. Scroll work, sign work, curved profiles, etc.
I think that I could build one *overkill* for about 800-1000 w/o the router. Go with a good tubular steel frame and such if you're a DIY'er.
Otherwise, I would highly recommend the used CNC market. You can check woodweb's site. They might also be able to provide some insight as to how to do this in a production fashion.
g'luck
michael
Michael,
For $800-$1000 I might be interested in having you build it for me. Contact me offline at [email protected] if you are interested. I have a 3 HP PC available to use for this project.
I would also be interested in any plans you may know of that could work.
Thanks
- lee -
Probably meant 800 to 1000 for himself....add on 60 or 70%....or more...plus shipping...for you...
It is still a lot cheaper than buying a new CNC machine (grin).
- lee -
Lol. I wish I had enough idle time to do such a project.
I could probably sketch up some plans easy enough, but I'm afraid that I wouldn't have the time to build it :)
I would suggest giving a metal shop locally a call and throw the idea by them. Generally, the fella's I've chatted w/ at most shops are always up for a bit of a challenge.
Material costs for them, probably 5-600. Double that for labor and you're still in for a lot less than a CNC. Not to mention a 5x8 CNC is generally 8k. I don't know how large those slabs you work with get, but larger than that and the machines begin to get really really expensive.
Let me know, I'd be willing to sketch something out to give you a bit better idea of what I was thinking.
michael
Michael,
I would very much appreciate a sketch, or any other help with this. I have some ideas as well, so perhaps we could come up with the perfect tool for the job. 5x8 would be perfect. Thanks for the offer.
- lee -
Lee ,
I know a fellow who had a slab mill built for him. Like a milling machine the cutting head is mounted to the shaft of a 3 or 5 HP motor and with the use of chain it travels for and aft and in all 4 directions . This is a custom made head and machine . He uses pinch dogs to hold the slab in position . This guy has sheds full of Myrtle , Black Walnut , Maple , Redwood , Oak , Buckeye , and anything else you can imagine .
He converted an old butcher meat band saw to re saw and slice stock on.
good luck dusty
This sounds exactly like what I am looking for. I am not looking to slice (well maybe that would be of interest too (down the road). Can you talk to your friend, or send me his contact information, so I can see where he had his bulit.
So this would be a purpose built CNC or a milling machine? I am not opposed to building my own, but if I could buy one for a few thousand, that would be time better spent.
Thanks.
- lee -
Lee ,
I will try and contact him this coming week. I don't think this one is CNC , not sure how sophisticated the controls were but he may have had this custom made not sure about that . He is a real interesting old fellow .Like a parallelogram the head travels then moves itself over and continues back .
will let you know dusty
That sounds very much like the unit / function I had in mind.
My concept was chain, but manual w/ a crank. If that unit your friend build has a more automated function, that sounds even better. Would eliminate jerkiness and human error.
The Slab would be wedge supported in my design as well, fixed. With the head (router) suspended over the slab in a controlled plane.
I'm intrigued by this as I find that type of slab work very attractive. Finished / polished top w/ a rougher side. Rugged, yet sophisticated.
Offer stands, but I'd prefer to wait until we find out if notDusty's friend has a contact and price point that will meet the need before I sketch :)
Cheers,
michael
Thanks Dusty,
This sounds like what I want.
- lee -
Lee,
You might have a look at this: http://www.woodwizz.com/
They are prety common over here for this task Biggest problem seems to be dust at the edges of the slab.
Dave
Lee,
I have been a tooling engineer for 17 years. The Router would certainly work as a stock removal tool. If you are looking to go reasonably fast with a machine that is simple to understand and use, you might consider a zig zag gang of routers (sort of like a multi blade lawn mower where the center blade is flanked by blades slightly behind it so that the diameters overlap) with large diameter cutters on a sled that rides on some guide bearings....if you want to go really cheap get some heavy angle iron (straight) and use cam follower bearings (from cargill) V-grove on one side riding the edge of the angle, and cylinder on the other side again on the top of the opposing angle iron. This way in one pass you get the job done. want to spend a little more...put a gear motor with a sprocket engaged with some roller chain streached the length of your mill and with some limit switches, you have power feed. I wish I could sketch on this thing. I think you could buy five routers for under a thousand dollars. The money you spend on routers will be well spent in keeping you one axis and eliminating the need for control of two coordinated axes. I don't think you will find the cost of the four cam follower bearings prohibitive. If you wanted to go hollywood, you could look at thompson linear bearings and rails. Hope this helps.
There is a fellow from upstate NY on ebay who is always selling Thomson linear bearing sets, pretty reasonably. Find him and call him as he has far more than he lists on ebay.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Again my thanks to all of you. Brian, I like this idea as it solves the problem quickly and is a job specific machine. I think though that the system would still require some refinement as the dust created by 5' worth of routers would be large (and choking). This would also be fairly cost prohibitive in the long run as this solution would either require (at 3" heads) 20 routers, or we are back to an X and Y axis.
For the people who keep suggesting Sanders and Planers (and the movable planer), thanks, but these options will only work for part of the problem. THe other thing is that a planer or sander in this 60" range will cost as much or more than a CNC machine. I am looking for simple and inexpensive (relatively).
As I mentioned earlier, there is a system out of Australia that appears to be something that would work. I am also considering building my own CNC machine (based on an offer from someone earlier). Can anyone recommend a good book or two, that could explain the priciples as well as possibly offer plans for building my own? There is so much more functionallity in a CNC Router, that I might be able to offset costs by doing some side work for the local cabinet shops that do not have CNC machines.
I know there are kit companies out there (which i may go with), but being the woodworker, tinkerer I need to see if this is something I could do on my own. Any advice is still appreciated,
- lee -
Lee,
Ok, now you have narrowed down what you are looking for. I would look at cnc plasma cutting and milling units made for small businesses. many state you can use a router in place of the torch, work with a pc, and come with software to program shapes. Here is one I just found in five minutes on line here, a friend of mine is going to retire, and bought a machine that can do a five by ten foot sheet and he told me he can mount a router. This would let you do cnc three axis routing as well as flattening work. There is a machine on this torchmate site for as little as 4K. Here is a link, and I will ask my friend what he bought and send that on to you as well. http://www.cncrouter.com/cncmill.htm You may have to search torchmate to find the home page and see the plasma cutter...I saw this mill and thought of mounting a router...looks like you can call them and sort of quote ala carte...no spindle etc. Happy hunting. PS. If you have any questions about the suitability of something, you can bounce it off of me if you want. I am a mechanical engineer and this is the kind of thing I do & have done for 17 years for a major cleveland based manufacturing company (2300 employees). I also love woodworking.
When I was at the IWF show in Atlanta a year ago, There was a company marketing a swing-arm routing machine like the australian one shown earlier. It was very well made and cost in the 4 to 5 grand range. Seemed like a lot of machine for the money. This is exactly what you want; If only I could remember the name of the company! Try checking with the IWF people, and I bet they could direct you to the right place. Otherwise, check over at WoodWeb.com in the milling forum, and they will help you.
I've seen machines published in the past in FWW (I think) that do this job. The Aussie Woodwizz is a commercial example. The engineering is simple - a frame that holds a router in a fixed plane and moves it around.
Can anyone else remember where these things have been published in the past?
Malcolm
There's a discussion going on in the power tools folder about Festool and EZ systems - I think someone is claiming you can use one of them for surfacing
Malcolm
Why not get a ShopBot? It is a low entry point CNC machine. The cost seems to be in your range.
http://www.shopbottools.com/
Lee,
A CNC router machine is designed to create detailed work at precise dimensions, what you want to do, surfacing a slab is an entirely different operation. A router will also leave tool marks across the slab the width of the cutter.
While you can do this on a CNC ,it would be a slow, expensive, and inefficient way to do the job. If you are going to be doing this frequently and as a business, you should be looking for a large planer and/or jointer.
Before you buy machinery, I'd look around for somebody in your area that already has this equipment and try to sub the work out to them, it would probably be far less expensive than investing in heavy machinery, including a industrial weight dust collector.
John W.
I've surfaced a few small slabs using a router on a guide system. While mine was hand guided and quickly cobbled together, it did work. However, I would never advocate the system for a production situation. A router simply isn't up to the task and I think those of you who are pushing for this must either like to abuse machines, eat a lot of dust, or like to work very slowly. Or perhaps all three apply.leetree: I don't have a solution for you. I'm a one man shop who doesn't have experience with large machinery. If faced with your situation, I think my first call would be to a really good machinery sales business. Until then, I'd advise you to sub this work out.
Thanks to all.
As mentioned earlier, a large (very) planer will not work. CNC is probably overkill, but I am looking for a purpose built machine. So far, I have found one from Australia (funny how the burl slabs are from there as well) called the Slabmaster. This machine is purpose built to flatten and sand table slabs. Cost US is about $4500, so it works for my price range, sort of.
I am going to keep looking, but for this small shop, farming this out is very cost prohibitive. I am trying to sell a product at a good price and if I can find a tool that is relatively inexpensive which allows for a slight markup to be passed on to customers, this is the one for me.
Keep the ideas coming. For those of you interested in Australian Burl and Wood, please visit my site at http://www.Leetreewoodworks.com
Thanks.
- lee -
I don't believe this has been mentioned yet, and perhaps it's crazy, but here goes....
How about a portable planer 3 1/2" (or slightly larger) on a carriage system instead of a router. It seems to me that this would remove material much faster than a router, and with the right carriage system (rigid, smooth sliding, and adjustable) this would work well. You could even make the carriage "head" adjustable so that it could be rotated depending on grain. Throw in a microadjust height mechanism and your good-to-go.
I'd bet you could build a solid unit, with hefty aluminum extrusions and bearings for less than $600.
Oh, and I hereby patent this idea (can I do that?).....unless someone else already has a patent, in which case never mind (and don't sue me!) :)
Steve
I use router ALL the time and I LOVE them.. Surfacing a slab with a router takes to long (It works well but takes a while) .. Just thinking if you need to do it all the time..
Not sure the sizes of the slabs you usually have..
I'm sure there is better ways (Can't think of one at the moment).. BUT.. General in Canada is having a sale these days and they have a 24 inch surface planner 7 1/2 HP for 1 phase and 10 HP or 3 phase...
$5999.00 US + SHIPPING!
Not sure what they have for a sander that size..
GO to http://www.general.ca and look.... Better tools out there but not for the price..
Just me.. I mention the sander because a planner will not work with ALL slabs depending on the grain.. Sander better for some 'sticks'..
This is the type of pperation I use
Garry
http://www.superwoodworks.com
How much are you paying for wide belt sanding? It has never cost me more than $50. And those are worst case senarios. You can probably get a used wide belt sander in your price range.
Mike
Try a wide belt sander. I would think it would be at least as fast as a router on a carriage. Start out with coarse belt to take the piece down to flat and then go up in grit. I do this all the time for large tops, glue ups, etc. It will flatten your table tops. It takes multiple passes though to grind down to size. Bob
There is a hardwood dealer named Edensaw in Port Townsend, WA, that carries very, very large slabs from both redwood and exotics. I see them everytime I go in their store and warehouse. My recollection is that the surface is fairly finished off. I think they mill alot of their own lumber (huge outfit). You might want to give the owner a call and see if he can steer you in the right direction.
Here is their home page. You want the Port Townsend location, not the Kent place. Sorry, I don't know the owner's name.
http://www.edensaw.com/
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
How big are these slabs and what tolerance are you trying to achieve? Are you going to be flattening the backsides, too?
If you can find tubing that's stiff enough to span more than the largest dimension of the largest slabs, this should be very easy to make. Using a frame made of a stable material to support the whole assembly, four rails, a couple of mounting blocks with roller bearings to ride on the rails attached to a plate for mounting the router (and remove it for changing bits, you should be able to do this without all of the extra expense. Remember, a lot of simple methods work very well.
Also, any router marks can be removed pretty easily.
SIB-KIS
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