Hi Y’all!. I’ve finally got all of my sharpening supply’s together, and built a “the ultimate grinding jig” as featured in issue #149 of American Woodworker Magazine, which is very simular to the Onewaly Wolverine Sharpening system . Had I only known of the Oneway system earlier,( oh well), It took me more time than I would like to admit to make the magazine version, but I had more fun doin it than I would have just buying it. I have the Veritas MkII honing guide, and 800, 1200, 4000, and 8000 grit waterstones. When flattening the back of my chisels, I get to the 4 and 8000 grit waterstones and there is a sucking? action which seems to stick the chisel to the stone making the lapping process very jerky and causing the blade to lift off of the stone. I’m only trying to lap an inch or less from the tip. Also, it is transfering a grayish color onto the stone (I assume it’s metal residue from the chisel). I think that this is keeping the blade from getting a mirror like finish. Is there any way to correct this problem? Is this what is keeping me from getting a mirror like finish on the back? and (one more question). Does the ruler trick apply to bench chisels? or is that just for plane irons? (which is next on my list once I get my chisels sharp) I appreciate any comments on this subject, or any other subject for that matter! Thanks everyone Happy Holidays George
Replies
Don't use the ruler trick for chisel backs, if you want to be able to pare. Suction has always been a problem for me. Spraying more water on the surface of the stone before honing seems to postpone the suction. The gray material (sometimes called swarf) is the removed metal. When flattening the back, much more chisel surface area is in contact with the stone than when honing the bevel, so the swarf builds up much more quickly.
I agree, the ruler trick is just for plane irons as you do not want a back bevel on your chisels. I flatten more than the last inch on my chisels and I use my water stone sideways for this, running the tip of the chisel right off the far side of the stone and then sliding it back onto the stone. I think the suction is a sign that the back is getting very flat. The black marks can be removed with a Nagura stone, rub it on the water stone to form a slurry, wipe the slurry into the stone with your fingers and rinse the stone off. It will cut better after the metal particles have been washed out of the pores of the stone. Don't forget to flatten the stones too. Hopefully your post will attract "roc" who seems to be this forum's authority on waterstones. If he jumps on you will get a wealth of information.
sharpening chisels
Thanks guys for all the tips! I'm trying to get another "test" chisel ready for another try, but with work, and Christmas stuff going on, I'm not getting much time for the shop. I'm having difficulty hollow grinding a straight 90 degree grind across the tip of the chisel, I reground an old chisel with a burnt tip and got what appears to be a straight grind, but I'll find out once I get it to the waterstones; I suppose it would be easier and faster for me if I was to get organized like your setup. Nice! I've got all my stuff spread out all over the place. Some inside some out in the shop. Aaarrg! Again, happy holidays!!!!!!!!!!! George;(Seattle, Wa.)
It was easy to organize. I had the bench set up for cleaning guns and when I went over to waterstones I just moved the gun stuff off and put the sharpening stuff on. The large piece of granite was the cut out left over when I put a Jenair grill and four burners into the new countertop in our kitchen remodel. The small piece is a dead flat granite stone for flattening.
organizing is definately in the works for me, all this stuff collects so fast, you have to in order to keep up.
George,
You can use the ruler trick on the front of the chisel, but not on the back side. The trick gives you a microbevel and you want the back to be flat. You don't need to have a mirror finish on the back of the chisel, but if you want one you can use a piece of leather on a flat surface and some green honing compound and you will get a mirror shine quite quickly.
Jim
I think I'm going to have to use the ruler trick like you say, to get the micro bevel. On my next attempt at honing a chisel, I tried it by hand and got a very sharp tool! however, when lifting it slightly to get my micro bevel I'm pretty sure I got a "rounded" tip. So I will go back over it using a ruler. I live near a Tandy leather store so I will visit it soon to get some leather for a strop and try out the green honing stick. If I cant get a high polish with the 8000 waterstone, I can try the strop and honing compound. If nothing else I will use the strop on my carving chisels. thanks Jim George
Hydraulic Lock
Hi George,
The "sticking" you are encountering is caused by hydraulic lock. Because you are experiencing it, it sounds like your stones and chisels are flat - good job! The grayish residue is normal, and I like being able to see that as I can tell exactly where I am removing material (and if I'm doing it evenly).
To get the mirror polish on the back of a blade (look at my profile picture) I just work at it for a while on 8000x (working up from 4000x). The gray colour does not seem to affect the ability to produce a mirror polish.
thanks for the tips and encouragement! And I mean that to everybody who responded to my call for help. It really means alot to me. I guess that learning some techniques come hard. I seem to get hung up on every step of this sharpening process. I finally got the hollow grind straight across the tip of my chisel, got the back flat, but when I hone the thing, It comes out crooked. I'm honing at an angle just like the chisel in the picture in my first post on this subject. It's always the same, with the slant on the same side. this has been the same wether I had the chisel ground straight or not. Talk about frustrating!! For about the past 5 years I've read everything I can get my hands on about woodworking. Books, every issue of every magazine, everything I can find on the internet, while all along I've purchased everything I need for a complete shop (all the machines, lay out tools, but now I'm really interested in hand tools too). I've dabbled with small projects, and testing techniques of different types of joinery, prepping and glue ups, etc. but now I'm ready to start on a couple of real projects that I've had in mind for quite some time now. However, until I master this sharpening process, I feel I can't move on. i know it's pretty narrow minded, but from everything I can see, nothing is more important than sharp tools. I figure that once I master chisel sharpening, It will make it easier to jump into tuning and sharpening my planes. Anyway, when honing my chisels on the waterstones I thought I was putting pressure directly in the middle, and I'm using the mkll honing jig. I'm wondering if your familiar with this jig at all. Is there may'be some special way that I need to hold it when honing that will make it go even and straight? or is there something else that I need to do to correct this problem? Again, thank you for your time and expertise, and have a great holiday George
Square
George,
Using the MKII honing guide, it should be easy to sharpen the edge square. If you're not getting a square edge, it could be because you are using uneven pressure (heavy on one side), your stones are not flat, or the front and back of your chisel are not parallel. That's all I can think of. The squareness is not critical for the chisel, but it does look funny. You are using the registration attachment for the honing jig, right? You might also check the edges of the chisel -that both are straight and parallel.
Hi Chris, I have been using the registration attachment on the honeing jig. It also has a skew registration attachment, and a camber roller attachment-which is why I was under the impression that all I had to do was insert the chisel and roll my way to a nice straight sharp edge! I thought that if I wanted a camber, I had to use the camber roller attachment. I didn't realize that a camber (or in my case, an uneven grind) could happen when using a honing jig. Thanks for troubleshooting my technique, it gave me food for thought when working out my sharpening procedure. I understand now that tools need a certain finessing in order to get that ultra sharp edge, George
George,
You may be overthinking this a bit. The reason we try to get the back flat is to make the place where the back meets the bevel as thin as possible. It doesn't have to be shiny. The way to know if the chisel (or plane iron) is sharp is to see how it cuts. If it cuts the wood smoothly, don't sweat the rest of it.
Jim
new username, same George
Hi Jim, you do me justice. I'm sure that I've been overthinking this more than a bit! even as a boy scout I couldn't sharpen a knife very well. And you ought to see my hatchets and axes! If you read my last comment to DonStephan about working a 1" chisel back for over 4 hours and still not getting it right, Well, I believe I've ruined that and a 3/4" brand new chisels by honeing them down (Unevenly of course) way too much. And now theyre not coplaner(?) with the front. One side is clearly thinner than the other! Guess I'll sign up for one of woodcraft stores sharpening 101 classes. And get some new chisels while I'm there.
Making sawdust comes pretty easy to me so I don't know why I'm having such a hard time with this. But I will figure it out. Thanks. George
Diamond Flattening Stone
George:
Didn't see it in your list of items - something is needed to constantly flatten waterstones. At the recommendation of Lie Nielsen I've been using a 220 grit diamond stone almost constantly to keep the waterstones flat.
Regarding the angled honed bevel, I get that all the time using my eclipse style honing guide. After every 8 or 10 strokes on 1000 stone I'll check the progress and adjust finger pressure left or right as needed. So little metal is removed on the 8000 stone that I don't stop and check - 10-12 strokes is all I'll use on that stone.
I'ved been using 220 wet dry
I've been using 220 wet dry sandpaper on 1/4" plate glass which seems to work well-- but I've been thinking of getting a diamond stone. Can the diamond stone be used in the lapping process on chisels and plane irons? I need to figure out a better method for doing the coarse (preliminary) lapping. I'm using 100 then 220 grit paper on plate glass before moving on to an 800 grit waterstone. But the sandpaper easily frays on the edges and needs to be changed often so that I tend to switch to the waterstones too early, and then, like I worked the back of a 1' chisel for over 4 hours and still couldn't get a completely consistent looking surface. when honing the bevel, I started checking my progress very often and guess what? it was just that simple! I saw where my finger pressure was causing uneven wear and that by adjusting as needed, I was able to hone a chisel with a straight bevel! So while my results aren't perfect by any means, my chisels are turning out pretty darned sharp! With a little improvement on my methods, and a lot of practice I am confident that I'll end of with perfectly sharp chisels! Thanks! George
Uneven Sharpening
George:
I believe you are tightening the clamping bolts that hold the chisel into the MKII unevenly. After inserting the chisel into the jig, tighten the bolts more evenly and confirm that the clamping plate is parallel to the jig. Otherwise, tightening one side too much rolls the chisel in the jig and you get a skewed chisel.
Personally, I do almost all my honing free hand, but I've used a number of different jigs over the years. You might want to check out my FWW article on free hand honing if you haven't seen it before. It might give you a few good ideas.
Cheers,
Hendrik Varju
uneven sharpening in the MKII jig
I have the MKII jig, which I rarely use now, and found that some of my chisels have tapered edges and others are square an parallel for the whole length.
When I register a chisel with parallel sides to the honing guide the tip is sharpened square. But when I register one of the edges of a chisel that has a taper along its length (narrower at the tip side-to-side than it is at the handle), then the cutting edge ends up skewed.
Measure the width of your chisels blade at the tip and up its length, if it's not the same, then that's the source of your problem, not your technique.
Sharpening
I struggled with sharpening for a long while, too, when I first started using waterstones. The 'light' came on when I put all the sharpening jigs aside, took chisel in hand, and went at it on the stones. You quickly learn to feel the bevel correctly and figure out how the most mild pressure in different spots affects your sharpening. The area you are working gives all the feedback you need. Nowadays, it is easy to get a mirror finish on the backs (and most of the time the fronts, too) and tools so sharp they should scare you! The final test is always seeing if the tool easily takes a clean shaving from endgrain...it is a joy to behold. Make your sharpening more of a Zen-like experience, develop a genuine "feel" for each tool (all the jigs limit or eliminate the most important source of feedback), only sharpen when calm, and come back to it later if the first part of your sharpening session doesn't go well...good light helps, too. I sharpen lathe tools, carving tools, bench chisels and paring chisels and that task which used to be agonizing and frustrating is now a breeze and the real reward is working with tools that do the job just like you'd hope they could and would. Settle down and I know you'll get to that sharpening comfort zone.
uneven sharpening in the MKII jig
I have the MKII jig, which I rarely use now since I found that some of my chisels have tapered edges and others are square an parallel for the whole length which causes problems when using the MKII fence.
When I register a chisel with parallel sides to the honing guide the tip is sharpened square. But when I register one of the edges of a chisel that has a taper along its length (wider at the tip side-to-side than it is at the handle), then the cutting edge ends up skewed.
Measure the width of your chisels blade at the tip and the width of the blade up closer to the handle, if it's not the same, then that's the source of your problem, not your technique.
One possible fix for the jig problem
I use that jig for sharpening but had problems the first year. There are two knurled brass screws used to tighten the blade in the jig. If they are not both tightened approximately the same you will get skewing on the blade when you sharpen it. It's sort of natural to tighten down one screw and then the other, but this will cause a skewed blade edge. Don't know why. But if both screws are tightened about the same, and you can tell this by looking at them after the blade is tight in the jig, you get a sharp edge evenly across the front of the blade. Once I started tightening them the same, I didn't have any further problems with the jig.
I'll throw in my .02
I love waterstones and have used them for years. I learned on the veritas MkII, which is a great jig, but quickly moved on to hand sharpening because it saved so much time. When I flatten my backs I polish up through 4000 grit, then I use the ruler trick with the 8000 stone, BUT I don't use a ruler, I use a thin strip of 1/64th brass from a hobby store. With the strip on the right side I carefully polish the edge on the left side of the stone. I've never had any paring problems or felt like I took it out of flat. Also, forget sandpaper or diamond stones for leveling the waterstones. Just get two 1000 grit stones and rub them together each time before you start, and from time to time during long sharpening sessions. The imperfections between them are rubbed out to create a dead flat surface. At first you'll feel them catching and rubbing, then they'll just slide evenly against eachother and you know you're good. Be sure and rotate and flip the stones often to help cancel out any effor that may develop, and just use the 1000 grit stones to flatten the 4k and 8k rocks. I haven't surfaced my stones in three years, other than the method described, and they're still dead flat today as verified by my machinists straightedge. Also, never underestimate the importance of stropping. That's how you'll get that perfect mirror finish you're after. A micro polishing compound on leather is all that's needed, but sometimes when I'm doing a new chisel back I'll buff it using the flat side of a felt buffing wheel on my grinder to get it real good.
My test for sharpness? It ought to shave hairs when slid across the skin as a minimum, but if it will cut through a hair just by brushing against it and without touching the skin, that's really sharp! Also, if it will pare through endgrain pine without tearing it out, that works too. I have to admit, though, i'm kindof sick. Sharpening is one of my favorite chores in woodworking.
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