Morning all,
I’ll try to explain this properly so everyone will understand. My workbench is 4′ by 8′ made out of 8/4 maple strips that are about 2″ wide. The top is made out of 4 sections that are 12″ by 8′. Problem. The last segment of the top which is on the edge has dropped about 1/8″. So basically, the top has 3 segments are flat and the last segment sits lower by 1/8″. How do I go about flattening the top. Ideas:
1. Rip the 4 segments apart on the table saw and plane them down equal and reglue.
2. Use my jointer plane and plane down the three segments to match the forth segment, which would require planning down an 1/8″ on 3 segments.
3. Use my power hand planer and use that to plane down the 3 segments.
Any ideas? I just can’t stand having a non flat workbench anymore.
Thanks,
Jeff
Replies
IF THE PANELS ARE ALREADY GLUED INTO ONE LARGE TOP NOW, I WOULD BE TEMPTED TO USE A BELT SANDER CROSS GRAIN AND BEGAN TO WORK THE TOP DOWN SO THAT IT IS FLAT WITH THE LOWEST PORTION, ULTIMATELY SANDING WITH THE GRAIN TO THE FINEST GRITS; USE WINDING STICKS AND MAKE PENCIL MARKS ON THE TOP TO CONTROL HOW MUCH MATERIAL YOU ARE REMOVING.
YOU CAN CLAMP SCRAP WOOD TO THE EDGES TO INSURE YOU DON'T ROUND OVER THE EDGES AND KEEP THEM CRISP DURING THE PROCESS, BUT NOT NECESSARY.
RIPPING IT DOWN AND RE-GLUING SOUNDS TOUGH AND MAY NOT BE NECESSARY, AS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE ENOUGH MATERIAL TO LOWER THE ENTIRE PIECE 1/8" WITHOUT LOSING TOO MUCH OF THE THICKNESS.
K
Jeff,
How did this happen in the first place?
If it was a glue-up problem, then I would flatten the other three to match using whichever means you have the wherewithall to do.
It's not rocket science, just get the whole thing flat. Taking it apart does what for you? I suspect it opens up a whole new can of worms to deal with and there's no assurance that you won't end up with the same problem.
If there's sufficient structure below the top then I'd just flatten it and move on
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I understand Bob. I think the problem occured at glue up with the last segment not being square, but off by 3 degrees resulting in the last segment being at an angle resulting in it being lower by 1/8". The idiot that glued it up (me) did not see it at glue up time. The top is 2" thick made of maple that if face glued. The way it is sounding, I guess its just a matter of getting in there and getting it done. I am sure not looking forward to removing an 1/8" from most of the top. Damn I wish I didn't get it a hurry during the glue up, would have saved me a lot of time.
Thanks Bob,
Based on what you are describing -- the 3 degrees off perpindicular @ edge-joint -- I would DEFINITELY recommend ripping it @ that glue joint, and rejointing till you are happy with the resultant top ... then [biscuit, spline, or careful cauling during glue up] your way to your new top.
Again- this recommendation is based on the fact that things are just fine at the last 12" joint and get increasingly poor for a total drop of 1/8" at the edge (if I am understanding it correctly).
Whatever you choose- it seems like doing anything to the rest of the top is unnecessary (bigtime).
My .02
-Peter T. (who almost never stops by Knots anymore ... for some reason??)
Hey Peter,
How come you don't stop by anymore/as much?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hi Bob,
Good question (meaning difficult to answer! :)).
In the interest of giving you a thoughtful reply, I think that what I come up with is:
* There was something of a greater sense of community in the "old" KNOTS. This, admittedly, might be just my imagination but certainly some of the old characters -- Sarge is one person that springs to mind -- stopped posting and it just didn't feel the same without them.
* I got bitten by the Handtools bug ... and I got bit BAD. It doesn't seem like there much focus, interest and/or discussion on HT here, ergo I get my HT fix elsewhere (when and if I get my 'fix' at all).
Thanks for asking! :)
Warmest regards,
Peter T.
Hey Pete,
ergo I get my HT fix elsewhere
Wow, that's unfortunate. I'm in the process of going down the slippery slope as are several others in here. Worked primarily with power tools for many years and want more out of this hobby.
It's a great feeling to be able to fettle an old hand-me-down plane into a good working one. As time goes on I'm getting more and more into handtools and we've had some pretty lively discussions of late in here, especially regarding bevel up planes.
Welcome back and hopefully we can partake of your knowledge some day soon.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
If you don't mind saying, where do you get your HT fix?
Jeff
Personally I would take it apart and put it back together fixed. This is the best way to avoid the problem that you will alwas know that you had to take that 1/8" off and that the bottom is not parrallel to the top.
Doug
I had a similar problem on my last bench glueup. I see only 2 options:
1) Rip the offending section free and re-glue - this is the quickest and easiest path.
2) I use a router sled to flatten large table tops and it works great. So you can use this method to flatten the entire top. This is probably more work to build a solid router sled and flatten a 4'X8" top, but you will get a flat workbench in the end.
Bob in Calgary
Woodman,
Rip and glue is my suggestion. To save your back, consider using a circular saw and guide rather than taking it to the table saw. Biscuits are an easy was to keep mating parts aligned and often easier than splines and dowels. Though you could level the bench, that's a lot of work as you well know. If the end piece is 1/8" below the rest of the bench, even where they meet (kind of like this ---_), then the bottom will be uneven if you simply level the top. I don't know about you, but this would bother me.
Chris @ flairwoodworks
Sounds like a perfect job for the power planer you already own. I'd get it close with electricity and then finish it off with handplanes if you have them.
Jeff,
Rip, make square and reglue is probably the best option in terms of righting the wrong. However, I am trying to imagine how you would get that geet big chunk of benchtop ready to rip..... Also, your bench top would be 1/8" less wide due to the saw kerf. (This may or may not matter, depending what's currently on the ends).
Another option would be to temporarily mount a batten on the dropped edge then, with a sled on the router, route out 1/8" to 0" across the top of the offending piece. In the resultant 12" wide, i/8" deep rabbet, glue in a 1/8" thick new piece (or several strips, to make the 12" width) on top of the routed extant piece.
The new piece(s) would be co-planar with the rest of the benchtop thus making the whole thing flat. This would be an easier option than ripping and regluing that geet big top, perhaps, at this stage......?
I would just bite the bullet and get out your jointer plane and go to work. It won't take you as long as you think it might. That is if the plane is tuned well and sharp.
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
Jeff:
Have you got a router? You can flatten that top in no time by attaching a couple straight rails on either side of the bench, get them perfectly aligned then with your router attached to a flat/stiff base just plane the whole thing flat. Tage Frid showed this technique in one of the early FWW issues and I've used it several times over the years. Much more managable than a belt sander or hand held planer or worse yet taking the whole thing apart!
Best of luck
Madison
Not the ideal fix but one that might take the least work:
Glue up another layer of strips about 1/2" thick and plane to the thickness of the drop (plus a bit more) and glue it onto the existing section and plane that flush. Then flip the top over and plane off the 1/8" that juts down beneath. You could add one more full width strip to cover that exposed edge and hide the booboo. Otherwise I guess I'd do the router sled method.
Edited:
Oops. Missed the fact that the drop doesn't run full length. If you go this route, you might have to first route out a consistent drop first so you dont see a joint along the length of the patch. Basically I'm thinking along the lines of a honkin big dutchman patch.
If you build it he will come.
Edited 11/7/2007 9:24 pm ET by douglas2cats
If there is not anything to prevent doing it, rip it off, flip it end for end and then only plane the drooping edge which will now be high.
I would not hesitate: rip off the the last quarter segment before anybody sees it , square it properly and reglue flush and straight this time. So what if you lose 5 or 6mm in width on the way- did you not include some "extra" anyway? (;)
Whoa - wrestling a 4' x 8' maple top 2" thick over the table saw to rip is gonna be a challenge. Make sure to get a helper or two!
It does sound easy - just rip and reglue - until you realize how much that top must weigh.
It sure seems like it could be brought to flat inside an hour or so with the hand-held power planer the OP owns along with a bench plane or two - or maybe just finish up with a sander after the power planer.
I don't understand why the weight is such a big issue. I would use a circular saw to cut it apart and then a jointer hand plane to square the mating surfaces. At no time would it be necessary to handle the top until it is time to reglue.
You make it sound so simple!
I've never tried to rip 8/4 maple with my circular saw, but I'm wondering whether it might be a lot to ask of most circular saw motors?
The planing would not be so easy either - assuming you wanted a tight mating across all 384 sq. inches of the mating surfaces.
I think I might try a flush trim bit in a router guided by a straight edge clamped in place (or even screwed to the bottom where it wouldn't show):
View Image
I wonder if you might be able to do that trick where you place the two pieces to be mated next to each other with only a 3/8th gap and then run a 1/2" straight bit between so they are cut simulataneously? The only challenge would be lining up the peices to be joined to ensure 90 deg. cuts on both edges.
Edited 11/8/2007 2:19 pm ET by Samson
You're right, ripping 2" maple in one pass would be too much for pretty much any circular saw. What about setting up a fixed rip guide and taking a little bit at a time? That should work, no?
Most nights are crystal clear, but tonight it's like he's stuck between stations.
Sam,if nobody is around to help, or if I thought it too heavy , I would still rip and rejoin. If I had no circular saw I would get on top and rip it by hand saw (well I do have a proper rip hand saw). If circ saw was not up to it I would at least use it to cut say one deep-then finish by hand.
Then there is the question of shooting the edge: there is the router option but I would still prefer to shoot it by hand with a number 7-which is not too cumbersome to use with the top horizontal.But this does depend on how fit your back is....Philip Marcou
Oh, Philip, I completly agree about ripping and rejoining. I was merely thinking out loud about the prospect of nagavagating that hunk of a top over the table saw - it's hard enough (even with 2 people) to cut a full 3/4 sheet of plywood.
I know a 7 could do it. I also think truing two 2" x 96" surfaces square and flat to meet without gaps over the entire 8 feet is a challenge. Even establishing accurate reference lines to plane to will be a challenge - especially on the 36 inch wide piece.
A router at least is referencing off the top for the 90.
phillip,
It just seems like an awful lot of work for a 1/8" fix.
I would be curious to know what the underside of the top looks like. Maybe flip it over, plane off the 1/8" proud smaller section. You're square. If you want, shim up what would now be the out of square section on the other side (which would now be the bottom).
No ripping, jointing and then more planing/flattening anyway.
Am I missing something here?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 11/8/2007 3:19 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob, your way would work too. I'm not sure it's much easier though. Even assuming you could work on the narrow side by flipping the top over (this might not be possible for various reasons - angled dog holes, installed vises, etc. - but let's suppose it is), taking an 1/8th off the face of a 1' X 8' section is a good deal of wood. Not to mention it would have to be done very carefully with lots of checking of progress so as to gently meet the adjoining sections - i.e., you couldn't do too much carefree hogging.
Samson,
I guess where I'm coming from is that if I had done all that work and I had really good glue joints already, I'd have a hard time justifying tearing it apart and risk rejoining it just for the 1/8" discrepancy.
Of course we are all assuming a lot of things here as we haven't seen the problem. All in all we are all contributing thoughts that the OP can either apply or disregard as he sees fit. Your thoughts about the dog holes is absolutely spot on and if that is the case.............
Maybe we're making too many assumptions here and we all know about assuming, right!? :-) It's all good and the OP is hopefully benefitting from the debate, and to me that's the important thing.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I'm with Bob on this, time to quit talking and get to planing -- would have been long since completed. 1/8" is not that much and you stand to make things much worse if you cut and reglue. I just made a maple tabletop that I hand planed to flat after the final glue up (machine planed the two laminated halves, then glued them together). Wasn't as large as yours, but your's is manageable. I suggest the router sled flattening or hand plane, but would advise against cutting and regluing. Just my thoughts.Woody
Bob, I sort of agree, but from previous experience of making this type of mistake I find the need to stick to the original plan is reinforced by the need to fix a silly mistake and the thought of losing 1/8th or more in thickness would be irking.(Some sort of psychology ).Also, I bet the "discrepancy" is more than 1/8th (;)
Ofcourse the type of equipment on hand also factors in- with some space and the availability of a table with wheels at suitable height for the table saw plus a nice long jointer things are easier. Without that I still would be looking to router, straight edge and long bit .
Philip Marcou
Why go through all that? Just make up a router sled and use a 1” mortise bit. I flattened mine in about 3 hours and that included making the jig. Nothing to cut up and re-glue, just 1/8” worth of sawdust to clean up.
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