Replies

1. 
   WayneL5 | Mar 28, 2004 01:37am | #1

   Here's some suggestions regarding technique.

   First, make sure you are using the correct size wire nut.  Each box should be labeled with all the combinations of wire sizes a particular size nut can fit.

   I presume that the #12 wire is solid, and the ballast wires are perhaps stranded.  When connecting stranded wires to solid wires, this is what I do.  I strip the solid wire about 1/2", and the stranded wires about 3/4".  I twist the strands of each stranded wire around themsleves tightly to make the stranded wire somewhat solid.  If there is more than one stranded wire to join, I then twist them around each other, twisting them clockwise looking at them from the ends.  Then I place the wires parallel to each other with the stranded bundle being a little longer.  I put the wirenut on, and as it's tightened, it draws the stranded wire up and around the solid wire tightly.

   When complete, you should be able to tug on each wire individually without pulling any loose.

   Any more experienced folks have a better way?

2. 
   RickL | Mar 28, 2004 01:39am | #2

   I never had that problem with wire nuts so I'm not really sure what is happening. You might look for other type wire nuts. I've seen some that had a metal removable internal sleeve with a set screw to lock the wires. I'd ask around at a better equipped hardware store or try a search on google. I guess I'm used to having industrial suppliers near by and you might not.

3. 
   JohnWW | Mar 28, 2004 02:06am | #3

   Lynn,

   A few things you can do:

   1. Try this way first, if it doesn't work go to the more complicated methods below.  Make the stripped part of the 16ga. about twice as long as the 12 ga. stripped part and wind all of the 16 ga. around the twelve ga.in the same direction that the nut twists on, then use a regular wire nut.  Also try using a size smaller wire nut, yellow is probably the right size, but you can try the next size down (orange?).

   2.  Use an automotive type crimp connector, the type that's open on just one end and looks a lot like a wire nut.  Put the two ends in the fitting and crimp the fitting with a crimping tool.  You can get the fittings and the tool at most Home Depots, hardware stores or auto supplies.  The very cheapest crimping tools can be fairly junky and hard to work.  Doubling over and soldering the wire, as described below, before you insert it in the connector will improve this connection. 

   3.  Strip the 16 ga. twice as long as needed for the wire nut, fold the stripped part back on itself, and solder the doubled back part with a little rosin core solder.  This will make the soldered part about as big as the piece of 12 ga, then use a wire nut to connect the soldered 16 ga. with the 12 ga. wire.

   4.  As in the first suggestion, wrap the 16 ga. around the 12 ga. but solder the joint before twisting on the nut.  This is the most reliable joint. 

   For soldering you just need small diameter rosin core electronics solder and a cheap pencil type soldering iron from Radio Shack.  Let the iron fully warm up, which will take five minutes or more before you try soldering. 

   Put the hot iron against the wires, then briefly apply a little solder to the spot where the iron is against the wires.  The solder will melt instantly and start to conduct heat efficiently from the iron into the wires, after a few seconds the wires will get hot all the way through and when you touch the solder again, this time directly to the wires, it will flow smoothly and make a good joint. 

   After soldering, don't allow the wires to move for several seconds until the solder has cooled enough to turn solid again.  If the wires move while the solder is still liquid you can get a bad joint but it won't be obvious. 

   Hope this helps, John W. 

    

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/27/2004 7:11 pm ET by JohnW

4. 
   UncleDunc | Mar 28, 2004 03:34am | #4

   Insulated crimp connectors would also work. You can get either cap or butt splice configurations.

   If you decide to use solder to stiffen the stranded wire, I recommend twisting the strands tight first. By hand is tight enough.

1. 
   lynnroy | Mar 28, 2004 07:36pm | #5

   Thanks for all the advice. I thought about trying solder but was not sure if it was safe. With the directions you have furnished I should be able to get things fixed.

   Thanks Loads

   Lynn Roy Porter

5. 
   sawdust50 | Mar 29, 2004 07:22am | #6

   The good ol' wire nut is designed for compression and friction to bind the conductors together for good electrical contact.  After years of electircal work, the follwoning works wells to get the stranded and solid wires to bind.   (soldering works too, but try to do it on a ladder 10' up).   Others in this post have the ratio right for stripping the length of insulation.  In your case, the match of the #12 solid and the #16 stranded works well with the Ideal yellow nut. However, the trick is to place a slight dogleg (a few degrees off center then back to straight) in the solid conductor.   Your needlenose pliers make this easy.  Then wrap the standed around the center of the dogleg up to the tip, then screw on the nut.  This causes the tapered cone in the nut to focre the strands tightly on the solid in two places and under compression.  It won't pull out.  

   duster

1. 
   lynnroy | Mar 31, 2004 01:50am | #7

   I have completed the project without solder. I had 2 #12 2#16 and in each bundle one of the 12 was stranded one was solid. I went through all the steps of getting the wires the same length and added a 1/8 inch to my length. It was reall an easy project onece I got the hange of it. Just as with wood working a nights sleep and some chat does wonders.

   Thanks All

   Lynn R. Porter