Replies

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jun 09, 2003 07:33am | #1

   I don't know what to recommend as far as the number of fixtures, but I just replaced all the florescent tubes in my shop with what are called "full spectrum".  The brand I bought calls them "sun sticks." 

   The lights come on instantly.  Give out more light, and better light -- full spectrum.

   Alan - planesaw

2. 
   JackLindsey | Jun 09, 2003 08:07am | #2

   Hat,

   I suggest using 5 rows of 3 fixtures per row (15 fixtures). Each fixture should have 2 lamps. Don't bother with full spectrum. They are costly and provide little, if any, benefit for the added expense. Locate rows 3 feet from walls, with 6 feet between rows. This assumes that walls and ceilings will be painted white. If they are a dark color more will be needed.

   This may sound like a lot of light, but it isn't. Lamps deteriorate as they age, dirt build up on fixtures and lamps reduces usable light output, and dirt on walls and ceiling surfaces further reduces the interreflected light.

   Jack Lindsey

1. 
   kenewald | Jun 09, 2003 09:17am | #3

   Perhaps I'd second the additional light fixtures, especially if you're getting up there in age. 

   And/Or; I find a flexible light on on over my workbenches (so I can pull a light in close) very helpful.

   -Ken

3. 
   Jeff | Jun 09, 2003 02:33pm | #4

   Hat

   My 24x24 ft area has 10 4ft 2 bulb fixtures for light.

   I have them set on 3 differnt switches, so I don't need to turn on some

   if not needed, but usually have at least 6 on at a time.

   Feels dark without all 10 on.

   I could easily put up another 4 for more light.

   I do have some task lights also.

   Jeff

4. 
   IanC | Jun 09, 2003 03:50pm | #5

   Hat, My new shop is 20 x 30.  I followed the lighting layout recommended by Jack Lindsey in FWW issue #154 and I've  been very pleased with it.  I installed 3 rows of fixtures running the 30' direction.  Each row has 3 eight foot dbl. tube electronic ballast fixtures, not butted end to end but spaced about 18" apart and hung 8 1/2' off the floor.   One row down the center and the other two are located 3' out from the side walls.  I also wired a single bulb incandescent fixture on a separate switch so if I need to run in at night for a tool, I don't have to light the whole place.  So I don't think you're over doing it.

   If you can get the article, I think you'll find it very helpful.  And Jack, if you're looking in, Thanks!

   Ian

1. 
   JackLindsey | Jun 10, 2003 08:52am | #10

   Ian,

   Thanks for the feedback. It's nice to know that the info was helpful and you are satisfied with your shop lighting.

   Jack Lindsey

1. 
   IanC | Jun 10, 2003 06:36pm | #11

   Jack, I didn't notice your signature in message 3.  Yes, my light is very even throughout, no shadows.  At 53, I do use task lighting at the bandsaw,  but that's it. The fixtures are 8', 4 tubes each, with shields and wire safety grids. I needed the shields because the ceiling is open. My wife works for the largest flourescent fixture maker in the country so I got a discount of cost plus 10%.  Wish they sold tools!

   Ian

1. 
   JackLindsey | Jun 11, 2003 08:29am | #18

   Ian,

   I know your wife's company well. My shop is lighted with their fixtures, and I specified many of them when I was working. I can't beat your price though. Lost my contacts when I retired and left the stste.

   Jack

1. 
   milanuk | Jun 11, 2003 05:03pm | #19

   I've got a shop/barn w/ a main area roughly 20'x30', w/ a 12' ceiling, and a secondary attached shop area that is approx. 10'x20' w/ a sloping ceiling from 9' to 7'.

   Right now the primary lighting in the 'big' shop is 4 200w incandescent bulbs, on two separate light switches. I'm interested in putting in some kind of fluorescent lighting, on drop chains down closer to the ground somewhat. The main portion is still used for vehicle maintenance and repair regularly, so I need to be able to pop the hood on an F-250 4x4 w/o hitting the light fixtures ;) The walls and ceiling are finished w/ OSB, the walls plain and the ceiling painted white.

   How many fixtures should I put in, spaced roughly how far apart? I'm looking at overhauling the wiring in the building to get it to some semblance of usefulness, so re-running wiring right now isn't a huge deal. The shop is heated by wood as needed in the winter, so I plan on going w/ the cold weather fixtures and full spectrum bulbs. The idea someone mentioned about a small secondary light for entrance w/o firing up all the lights sounds like a pretty slick idea.

   Anyone know of any lighting guides on the 'Net for shop layouts? I haven't Googled yet, just want to know if anyone here has a 'known-good' resource.

   TIA,

   Monte

2. 
   johnnyd | Jun 11, 2003 05:28pm | #20

   Reading this with interest as I'm pondering the same issues for a new 700 sq ft shop with white metal on the ceiling and walls, and a dark, sealed concrete floor. But to get back to basics....

   Why do you prefer flourescent over tungsten?  I've always preferred tungsten over flourescent for color spectrum and quiet (no hum), and so far the five temporary pigtails with 150 watt bulbs have been adequete for construction and a bit of tablesaw work, current plans are to add two more along with a 'couple of over head outlets. 

   Maybe I'm underestimating the difference in amount of electricity consumption per unit of light (lumen?) between tungsten and flourescent versus the higher cost for full spectrum - cold weather (I'm in Minnesota, too) tubes.  How long will it take to pay back the higher cost of flourescent fixtures & tubes with lower energy consumption?

   Am I way off base here?  Anyone light thier shop with tungsten and happy with the results/cost?

3. 
   plinthe | Jun 11, 2003 08:15pm | #21

   To get the full spectrum with flourescents use two "warm white" tubes for every "cool white" tube. The warm whites emit the red end of the spectrum, and the cool whites give the blue/violet end. This is not only cheaper than using daylight or full spectrum tubes, but the emitted spectrum is fuller. Not all manufacturers indicate the spectrum of the tubes. I use Sylvania. I got this recipe from two sources: a body shop and a greenhouse grower.

4. 
   Biscardi | Jun 20, 2003 08:24pm | #27

   It is nice if you can space your lights so you don't get alot of shadowing in important places (main bench, table saw etc).

   Frank

5. 
   forestgirl | Jun 09, 2003 04:56pm | #6

   Hat, I will second Alan's suggestion for full-spectrum lights if you can fit them in the budget.  If you're doing any finishing, they will give you a much truer indication of the colors you're about to achieve -- regular fluorescents add a yellowish cast to things you're looking at.  The "cool white" lights are better, but I find them glaring.

   Don't know what the winters are like where you are, but FS bulbs can help your body fight off any winter lethargia also.  Very noticeable in the great northwest.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

6. 
   DougF | Jun 09, 2003 05:06pm | #7

   Hat,

   I have a 20 x 35 shop and use 3 rows of 3 - 4' 4-tube units.  I should have installed 4 units per row but there is sufficient light.  I absolutely second the use of full spectrum bulbs and semi-gloss white walls and ceilings.  The full spectrum tubes are worth the price difference.  The semi-gloss provides better reflection is much more durable than flat latex.

   Doug

7. 
   RoyinMD | Jun 09, 2003 08:36pm | #8

   Hat,

   I recently drywalled the ceiling of my 16'+ x 20'+ shop and painted the ceiling and walls eggshell white. All the lights had to come down of course and I hung some of them on the walls during construction. I was and still am, lighting only the back 3/4 of the shop (the working area). I had hap-hazard light locations before because of expanding shop area over the years. Reworking all this was nice.

   This won't be the first time I didn't follow the norm here. I'm into localized lighting, lots of light at the work areas and the overall shop gets the overflow. At 47 I already wear progressive glasses.

   (2) new 4'(2 bulb) T8 fixtures, parallel/6" apart, over one workbench.

   (2) new 4'(2 bulb) T8 fixtures, parallel/4" apart, over the tablesaw.

   (2) older 4'(2 bulb) shop light fixtures, parallel/6" apart, over the other workbench, and one more fixture perpendicular at the end of these.

   Still thinking the remainder but you could read a newspaper anywhere in the work area.

   Enjoy, Roy

1. 
   DennisS | Jun 15, 2003 09:50am | #25

   I didn't fully appreciate the drastic color shift of flourescent lighting until I went shopping for under cabinet lighting the other day. The lighting store had several types of lighting on display side by side. The flourescent lighting rendering of natural wood, compared to halogen or xenon simply sucked canal water.

   When you can see the effects next to one another, the difference is rather more than dramatic.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jun 20, 2003 05:55am | #26

   Dennis,

   Could you be more specific with what you learned and saw?  Please?  What do you recommend as a result of what you learned?

   Thanks,

   Alan - planesaw

8. 
   Telemike | Jun 10, 2003 08:16am | #9

   I use about 10 double 4' fixtures for a big 2 car garage.  As someone else said, use wide spectrum bulbs to see colors honestly - don't use the cheapest bulbs.

   I don't like 8' bulbs much.  They're big and fragile and, not being the ubiquitous 4' tubes, they're more expensive per lumen (measure of light output).

   When you're done with the bulbs, get them to someone who will recycle them.  They all contain 5 - 40 mg of mercury per 4' tube.  When the tubes break, the mercury vaporizes, drifts away, adheres to dust or smoke particles, rains down on the ground, and gets washed into rivers and lakes by the rain.  On the bottom, it converts to methyl and dimethylmercury, much more toxic than just plain mercury.  The mercury shows up in fish at high levels and leads to fish consumption advisories.

   Here in northern california, between the legacy of gold mining and the mining of mercury for gold mining, almost every lake and river tested has fish advisories.

9. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Jun 10, 2003 06:49pm | #12

   One other thing to look for is the temperature range of the ballasts.   The least expensive ballasts don't work in a shop that may be in the 40's in the morning.  More expensive electronic ones do work at those low temperatures.

10. 
    JeffKurtz | Jun 10, 2003 07:21pm | #13

    I've found that mixing fluorescent and incandescent bulbs provides a pretty full spectrum. With a bit of tinkering you should be able to get nearly shadow free lighting.

1. 
   ABenker | Jun 10, 2003 07:46pm | #14

   Have any of you used recesed 4' four bulb lights. The kind that are in drop in ceilings in offices. I have ceilings that are just under 8' in Height and want to convert to flourescent, but I am afraid that i will break more bulbs if they are not set into the ceiling. Anyone else have this problem with hanging florescent tube lights with low ceilings? Any suggestions. Also, In Minnesota i need ballasts that will start in sub-zero temps when i don't have my heat running any suggestions for brands?

1. 
   RoyinMD | Jun 10, 2003 08:08pm | #15

   Abenker,

   My shop ceiling is just under 8' and I've only broken 2 in 20+ years that I can think of. Before my ceiling I had the lights hung from the joists with short chains. With the new ceiling I removed the wiring/ballast cover of each light and screwed them directly to the ceiling with ez-anchors (sp?).

   I hear/read the new T8 fixtures with electronic ballasts are suppose to solve the cold start problem. I'll see this winter. I love them so far, quick start, quiet and great clean white light.

   Enjoy, Roy

1. 
   ABenker | Jun 10, 2003 08:14pm | #16

   So you took the ballast out of the fixture and basically hung light connectors and ballast directly to the ceiling? Did this save about 3" in space? do you have a photo of these? or am I over thinking this! Do you use any protective gaurds?

   Thanks for the info

1. 
   RoyinMD | Jun 10, 2003 08:41pm | #17

   I just removed the tubes and wiring/ballast cover to get at the inside screw holes. The fixture stayed whole. Flush on the ceiling, not hanging down from a chain makes a big difference. I don't have any defusers or guards.

   No photos yet, the only digital camera I had was borrowed.

   Enjoy, Roy

2. 
   watkinsjd | Jun 11, 2003 11:25pm | #22

   Be sure you have enough incandesent lighting to see by as your shop gets up to temp in the winter.  The gas in the tubes takes a while to heat up no matter what ballast you use. Especially as cold as it can get there.

   Former resident of Minnetonka and da UP.  :=)

11. 
    eddiefromAustralia | Jun 13, 2003 12:43pm | #23

    HI Hat,

    Since nobody's mentioned it yet, you need a couple of normal lights in the work area as well as the fluoro's.

    Fluorescent lights can produce a high frequency 'flicker' similar to a strobe, and if you're unlucky enough, they can make a moving blade appear still - could prove to be quite a mess if you're deceived.

    Cheers,

    eddie

12. 
    tyler | Jun 13, 2003 11:20pm | #24

    4 foot tubes are cheaper than the 8's and offer more variety.

    RD