Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 07, 2004 06:28am | #1

   If nails and putty spook ya, screws and plugs will do ya. I'd use a finish nailer and stainless nails done in ten seconds.

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   jako17 | Jan 07, 2004 06:46am | #2

   Hi John when I build windows of that configuration I make 3 sashes. The outer 2 have the hinge clearance and the middle one has a rabate round the outer edge .That gives a shadow line the same as the hinged ones.The rabate only goes back about 1/2 in.Further back the sash fits the jamb.I then screw it through from the opening window side and counterbore and plug.This way it looks balanced and in the remote possibility that the client changes their mind , it can be made to open with a few cuts on the table saw.By the way I use stainless screws for all applications on windows sometimes the screws that are with the hardware are very poor.Glue up with epoxy .If you require further help get back to me

1. 
   user-236707 | Jan 07, 2004 08:42pm | #3

   Cool, thanks. When you say "Further back the sash fits the jamb" I assume you mean that this is a pretty tight fit so that the screws coming in from the side jambs will not put any stresses onto the fixed sash? Also, I will be thoroughly oiling the sash, but given that Vancouver is on the "Wet Coast" do you think I have to be concerned at all with any stresses between this sash and its jamb due to any swelling of the sash in the rainy season?

1. 
   jako17 | Jan 08, 2004 12:03am | #4

   John , all the sashes I have built have been painted .I insist that no exterior  mill work leaves my shop unprimed.I did a Victorian reno long ago where the client 's painter was to take care of those aspects.Ten years later they were still bare wood,that is no advert for me  so now it isn't an option.The saving grace was in those days we used redwood and they stood up to 10years before paint now we use pine and I am not so sure.As for expansion I am not on the west coast so I cannot advise.I make the sash a slip fit but you could use a slip of setting rubber where the screw goes through.Remember that it is going into a rabate so you can caulk(a smear only ) on the back surface.Also ensure that the bottom rabate allows any water to drain.Put a tiny drip groove just back from the face of the fixed sash where it won't read but stops the water capillerying inwards.One word of caution if you use oil : Linseed oil based oils and putty cause the seal on thermo windows to fail.Your warranty on the thermo's will be void By the way if you find a method of making truly divided lights and can get the muntins under 1 1/8 wide let me know :-)

1. 
   user-236707 | Jan 08, 2004 02:02am | #5

   Jako, thanks again for your tips. As for the muntins, that's the holy grail isn't it? I haven't built many sash, and so far none with divided lights, but I already had a customer turn down a bulky-looking mission design, (and I knew they would) that used double glass and true divided. I guess that there's simply no way to get down to 7/8" muntins unless the spacers on double glazing were 1/4" wide instead of 7/16 or 1/2". And even then I wonder whether 7/8" muntins would effectively bear the extra weight. I'm not aware of any double glass with such narrow spacers. And I don't know about you, but especially in more northerly climates, it seems a shame NOT to use double glass even if you are doing a pretty faithful restoration. For fanatical restores single is OK. Decorative divided lights of any kind just seem wrong to me.

   Which brings up another question. Have you ever heard of or done this yourself: build a 1 3/8" sash with double glass (ie 1/2" thick units) to retrofit into old frames. Using traditional shaping techniques (like keeping a nice inside pattern), I'd imagine this to be quite a challenge. On the other hand, there could be quite a market in cool climates for such custom replacements. Around here I'd see fewer of the old windows covered up with plastic.

1. 
   jako17 | Jan 08, 2004 02:43am | #6

   John, No I haven't done or seen it done .Most sash that I have seen is 1 3/4 stock.Though some of the ogee and lambs tongue are small,I think it would totally do away with the flat area just inside the glass,  then it would be very tight for the stop on the outside.The extra weight of the thermo calls for 1 3/4 stock even more so on double hungs.With regard to the stick on muntins used by some window makers in order to get the authentic look .I feel that the reason they look weird is that it is one sheet of glass and reflects as such.With true divided lights each pane is in a slightly different orientation giving a slight change in the reflected light,not top mention the blown glass on old single panes.If you think I can be of any more assistance don't hesitate to contact me