I am trying to cut some fluted stiles for my walnut bookcase using a rounded bit in my router. I am having trouble with buning at the start and end of the cut. I am sure the burning is due to the slight delay in presing down and lifting up of the stock from the router table. I try to do this as quickly as possible but can’t seem to avoid the problem. I am currently using a stainless steel bit but have ordered a carbide bit to see if that makes any difference. Any hints?
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Replies
Another method you might consider is to use a beading tool. It will take a bit longer doing it by hand, but there will be no problem with burning, and you can -- if you want -- make your own cutters, that will give you a custom size and/or style of fluting.
James
By "beading tool" do you mean a hand held scraper with a profiled edge to cut the flutes?
PMBI but yes I think that's what he means. Here's an example of an expensive, pretty way to do it. You can also cut scratch stock from old saws and screw 'em to hardwood holders made from scrap. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
<<By "beading tool" do you mean a hand held scraper with a profiled edge to cut the flutes?>>
Essentially, yes.
What I specifically had in mind were the LN (or Stanley) #66 beading tool (which JohnD showed in the link in his reply -- thanks John!) and a shop-made scratch stock. Either will do the job, and both eliminate the burning and reduce the probability of a catastrophic mistake.
James
I have used card scrapers before but I have never created a profiled blade. What is the best way to create one? If I wanted to start with an old flat scraper blade how would I proceed?
One way is to cut a piece of scraper to a bit wider than the desired width of your profile; you can also use an old unusable saw blade. Then use a narrow point permanent marker to mark your profile along one edge (remember, this needs to be a "negative" of what you want the wood to look like). Put your marked blade in a vice (a metal-working vice works best), and use various files (which ones depends on the shape of your profile) to carefully cut the metal away down to your profile outline (you could also use a Dremel tool or similar device to remove the bulk of the metal that needs removing). Then use a small profile sharpening stone (such as a slip stone) or fine grit sand paper on a dowel or similar holder to smooth the filed-out profile. Once you have the profile pretty much cut and smoothed out, take the blade out of the vice and flatten both sides on a sharpening stone to remove any burrs. Put the blade in a holder and give it a test run.
Here are a couple of articles that you might find useful:
This one is a general article on scratch stocks.
http://www.geocities.com/plybench/scratch.html
This one has some good general info on metal working.
http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/metalwork.htm
This one will cost you a couple of $$ here on the pay per view part of this forum.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2851
I remember seeing an in-depth, detailed article on making a scratch stock on one of the hand tool sites, but can't find it right now; I'll post it if I can find it later.
Hope this is useful to you.
James
Edited 5/16/2006 4:03 pm by pzgren
Edited 6/1/2006 10:37 am by pzgren
Thanks for the guidelines. You made no mention of filing at an angle to the stock so I assume we are talking about a 90 deg profile not a beveled edge. Also for my flat scraper card I burnish the eege to raise a burr . Don't I need to do something similar on a profiled edge?
<<You made no mention of filing at an angle to the stock so I assume we are talking about a 90 deg profile not a beveled edge. >>
Correct: the profile "cutting" edge should be 90º to the flat faces of the blade; it should not be beveled.
<<Also for my flat scraper card I burnish the eege to raise a burr . Don't I need to do something similar on a profiled edge?>>
No, the flat edge cuts very well and very consistently. The actual cutting edge is the junction between the flat side and the perpendicular thin profile of the cutter shape. In fact, to "sharpen" them, you simply run the flat sides on a sharpening stone to remove any burr that might have "grown" during use (the metal on card scrapers is fairly soft -- generally around Rc 50, ± a couple of points either direction).
Take a look at this link, and enlarge the picture at the center top. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=66 You'll see that the blades are not burred as you would on a card scraper. Also take as look at the "Use and Care" section on the bottom the the page.
_____
As a side note, I own a LN beading tool and use it pretty frequently for decorative beading, molding, edging, etc., on pieces I build. It works very well, takes little time to gain a good level of competence with, and does a fine job. Making new cutters only takes about 10 - 15 minutes, start to finish. So, I can unreservedly recommend it as a high quality and useful tool, if you want to buy a beading tool.
However, having said that, there is certainly no necessity to spend $150 on a tool that you can make an effective equivalent of in your shop for a couple of $$ worth of scrap wood, a piece of scraper or saw blade, and an hour or two of your time, and that will do the same thing.
_____
One other thing that I should mention: in my experience, thicker cutters generally work better than thinner cutters, especially in harder woods like oak, etc. Cutters made from card scrapers will work fine, but are somewhat more prone to chatter than are thicker (and more rigid) ones (a lot of this depends on technique, pulling/ cutting speed, grain texture, etc., as well). So, if possible, take a look at using thicker stock, but don't be afraid to experiment and see what works best for you and the wood you're using (a thinner cutter should work fine in walnut).
Hope this clarifies it a bit and answers your questions.
James
Thanks very much. I looked at the LN beading tool and of course I instantly reached for my credit card. But I had second thoughts about the price and decided to try the homemade approach. Appreciate your advice- the idea of using a beading tool instead of the router does have an appeal to me.
Glad to have been of some help. Best of luck on both making a shop-made beading tool and, more importantly, on your beading/fluting for your book case. Hope you'll post some pics when you get it done.
James
Edited 5/17/2006 6:26 pm by pzgren
Can you use the router hand held rather than in a table? It offers more control for making flutes, in my experience. In Britain we use plunge routers, mind, rather than those fixed turret things I've seen used in FWW.
If you use a plunge router and make 2 passes per flute, you can make the second pass a very shallow cut. If you simultaneously plunge and begin moving the router at the start, this avoids the burn, which is due to the bit turning on the same spot too long. Similarly, at the end of the flute, let the router unplunge just as it reaches whatever you use as a stop.
I've fluted many a bookcase front face this way, usually with 3 or 4 flutes per stile. The "plunge and go" technique always avoids those burns. I picked up the technique from a "basic routing" book which I long ago gave away and can't recall the title of. Before I learnt this technique, I spent many a bored hour sanding burn marks out of the end of such routed work. Cherry and white oak were always the most prone to such burning.
Lataxe
I do it that way also and still wind up with some burn at the ends, I made a scraper that matchrd the radius of the groove and one or two light passes takes care of it.
I do have a plunge router. The reason I use the router table is because of the simplicity of setting the fence. If I do it by hand-held router, I will need to set up some sort of jig. What do you use?
Edited 5/15/2006 7:58 pm ET by jrogerh
For small scale (ie small bit) routes on straight stock I use either a 3HP Dewalt 625 or a 1HP Bosch POF600A. Both have fences that can be fitted to the base. The fence is run along the straight edge of the workpiece, with an offset to the bit that cuts the flute or whatever the right distance from the edge.
I prefer the Dewalt because of it's mass; but also because it's fence is micro adjustable, allowing things like multiple flutes to be correctly spaced more easily.
I actually have two of the Dewalts (one is permanently strapped to a Woodrat) so I often use the second fence as an insurance, mounting a fence either side of the bit and setting a gap between the two fences equal to the width of the workpiece being routed (assuming it is of even width all along its length, which it often is).
If the workpiece is narrow and there is a risk of the router tipping, I strap the workpiece down next to another piece of equal thickness and run the router over the now wider platform.
The "plunge and go" technique does work well to avoid or take off router burns; but it does need a light touch at the begining and end of the very small increased-cut-depth on that second/final pass.
Lataxe
Thanks again for the tip. I have a 3 hp Makita plunge router so I will give it a try.
Here's another beading tool
Jack
Thanks again for the info.
I think you mean High Speed Steel. I've found I generally get a lot of burning with HSS compared to carbide.
You could also clean up the end of the fluetwith a gouge. This can also give you an elliptical end, which I think looks more "handmade" than the perfect half-circle end you'll get with the router alone.
Pete
Common problem in the router table. I use sandpaper the fix it.
Mike
How about a ramp at the start and end of the flute? The router rides down the ramp, starts cutting the flute. At the end the router rides up the ramp exiting the cut. No stopping for burning to occur.
I think you mean high speed steel bit or you are using part of the kitchen sink.
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