for Charles: design changes to LU87 rip?
hi –
i just received my amazon order today, a Freud LU87R010 24-tooth rip blade, and i noticed a couple of significant differences between the blade sitting on the table in front of me, and the blade advertised on both amazon and rockler’s sites.
i’m wondering if the online sellers had their info wrong, and it went unnoticed, or has freud actually changed the blade’s design?
the blade specs as advertised on the sites below show the LU87 with an ATB grind w/ 20 degree hook angle.
however, the blade i received a couple of hours ago is a FLAT-top grind w/ 20 degree angle. also, the expansion slot is different. the characteristic “question mark” shape seems to have changed to a more S-like shape, and has 2 different widths: the semicircular curlicue top is now very thin, while the shaft remains thick.
other than that, the labeling appears identical, including its recommended cut scale.
see for yourself:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000225UH/ref=pd_qpt_gw_2/102-3895862-8998529
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16429
fyi: note that on freud’s own site, the enlarged image of the LU87 is the wrong picture — it shows the 40T ATB LU86 blade, not the LU87.
i chose this blade because i have the LU88 TK and the Forrest WW2 TK, and i wanted a dedicated thin kerf ripping blade, and one that could handle thin to thick materials (thus the LM74 and the LM72 were out). i also thought that an ATB grind might give a cleaner cut than the FTG. [honestly, it also seemed a great value, w 20% off at amazon).
i came to the decision after learning as much as i could by testing blades, reading about tooth design, reviewing your posts here and elsewhere, and finally, seeking the advice of an experienced saw-blade guru, tester, and knots poster (scott spencer). iirc, scott thought the LU87 was an ATB as well.
i would greatly appreciate if you could shed some light on this. it’s not that i’m unhappy — although if it is a design change, it would be a bit surprising — but i am very curious to know what’s going on.
now it seems that the LU87 with FTG is just a thin-kerf incarnation of the LM72 — is this the case? if so, then how come the cut recommendation chart is so different? what accounts for that — is it merely the kerf thickness?
by way of explanation, perhaps your answer might include a review/recap about freud’s thinking behind its tooth design decisions for rip blades — FTG vs. TCG vs. ATB.
🙂
thanks in advance!
philip
Replies
I'd like to see you copy this note to Freud. You are a customer whose query creates a customer service *opportunity* for the company.
HI Philip - There was a discussion about the change on another forum. Several other members noted the same thing. The unofficial conclusion from that discussion was that it is indeed a design change. ..."Sarge" from Knots was in on the discussion too and was going to contact Charles. I'm not sure why they'd change a successful model that has specific parameters that users like you seek out, as opposed to introducing a new model....I'm curious too, so I hope Charles intercepts this.
Morning Phillip...
As Knotscott implied, this came up on another forum and I did a little digging. Amazon.. Eagle America.. Rockler all have listed the blade as ATB 20* hook. I have not had the opportunity to call Charles at Freud (frankly, I forgot.. forty lashes :>), but Charles will probably see the message here as he does monitor.
I have always seen the blade as ATB.. The poster on that forum that ran into the same thing you did was asking the same question. I went to the Freud web-site and it now list the blade as 24 T flat tooth as their full kerf ripper. Go figure?
I personally prefer the full kerf 24 T flat as it will rip quicker with more gullet space. But.. the ATB will give a bit smoother cut. I have run both and I just purchased a 24 T flat full kerf for my new reco Uni-saw. The smaller saw wears the 24 T ATB. I always leave stock proud as I'm going to the jointer after it gets ripped anyway. The flat is a true ripper..
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
philip,
The LU87 Series has indeed been updated. In fact, I have been a proponent of making that change for many years. Contrary to some opinion, IME the Flat grind is preferable to ATB for rip blades as it is better at chip removal (think sharp chisels) and less likely to wander or leave tooth marks. What results are you getting?
(BTW, thanks for the heads up on the picture problem at the Freud website.)
Freud America, Inc.
thanks charles, and everyone else, for the replies --haven't tried the blade yet. i am heading into the shop today, so i'll report on the cutting results afterwards.charles, could you comment on my question about the LM72 vs the LU87 -- since they are now both FTG w the same hook angle, why is the cut recommendation chart printed on the blade different for each? [ for crosscut and for plywood cutting the chart shows LM72 is only "fair," while the LU87 is "good". ] is that due to the kerf difference alone?finally, along with the LU87 for myself, i ordered a dewalt rip blade for our shop, from their new TK "precision trim series" -- which with its yellow coated blades seems to be a blade-for-blade competition with freud's TK red coated industrial line. care to comment? thanks charles.
best,
philip
philip,The usage chart on the LU87 must still reflect the ATB design which was better for crosscutting and plywood than the flat tooth version. Thanks for pointing out that it needs to be updated. I don't think that the DeWalt that you purchased compares to the LU87 series. It is marketed similar to and probably more competitive with the Diablo blades.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
ah -- that makes more sense, that the cutting chart simply has not changed yet.thanks for your replies charles. very good products!cheers
philip
Amazon has a link somewhere on the item page where you can inform them the information on that item is incorrect. They certainly should take the blade back if you decide you want to go with a different model. Bummer!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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