Over the years I’ve heard of Forrest blades. I understand the durability of using C-4 carbide, but can you really use the blade for ripping as well as cross cutting? Seems too good to be true. I would love to stop switching blades all the time. Does anyone have experience with these wonder saw blades?
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
Spend the money! There may be some newer blades around that are nearly as good as the WWII but if your saw is correctly set up you will say goodby to your jointer for ripping and cross cutting. I know Freud has come out with their new glueline (?) blade, but the WWII has been there for some time. The only thing I can find that approches a negative comment is that I wish they would provide a blade with a raker, might have to go up to 50 tooth, that would give a flat bottomed kerf. When I make lock-miter joints on small boxes the ATB cut gives me more space than I like. Guess the space is good for glue to channel out.
no saw blade can replace the jointer.
I must be doing something wrong.I have the WW2 and have aligned the blade with the fence and I'm still getting saw marks.Now,I will say that I'm not using a stabilizer with the blade.Could this be the difference?I've aligned the fence and blade to within about .002 and I have almost no vibration in this saw.I've checked for arbor,blade,and flange runout and it's within about .002 also.What gives?
Blake
Blake, do you use a splitter? If so, triple-check and make sure it's perfectly in line with your blade. If it deviates at all, or is not 90* to the table it can nudge the wood enough to cause problems. Usually, it's burn marks, but I suppose it's possible, if the deviation is very small, to just get the blade marks.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks for your response forestgirl.I just ran a test and noticed saw marks with and without the splitter.Again I double-checked my setup and can find no problems there.Do you think the addition of a stabilizer will make any difference for me?I'm starting to run out of options.Thanks again!
Blake
I for one don't think a stabilizer is going to do the trick. Either things aren't set up straight and square to the blade or there is some wobble in the blade mechanism itself.
Of course, it's also possible you have a bad blade.
I tend to agree with Circlekid above. You probably got a bumb blade. I have never forked out for a WWII, tend to prefer Freud blades, but if you've tested it on wood 3/4" or less in thickness, and don't get a smooth cut, a stablizer isn't going to make that much difference.
I'd call Forrest and get them to exchange the blade.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Finally, someone else has my problem. I thought I was the only one who didn't love their WW2. My blade has the exact same problem. After hours of fine tuning my saw (Delta uni) I couldn't produce a good rip. Defeated I just assumed I had gotton a bumb saw(It was also new)then, about two months later, on a whim I bought a Amana combo blade at the local lumberyard. First cut was flawless. So the WW2 got demoted to the Miter saw where it's been ever since. But the more I think about it, for all that money I should send it back to Forrest to get fixed. To make a long story short You Got A Bumb Blade. I think. If you do send it back let me knom how you made out.
I agree that all companies are going to ship bad stuff once in a while. I had a bad arbor in a radial arm saw and sent it back. They put a whole new shaft in. It's up to us to call them on it and insist they take care of it. They can't catch everything. It would be to expensive to catch everything.
One thing to look at is to see if the splitter is perfectly aligned with the blade. If it's off at all, you'll get slightly curved cuts, burns, and saw marks.
Must be an echo in here.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
blakester
A stabalizer should not be necessary on an 1/8" blade. You don't have a TK, do you?
Are these burns coming on ripping. You have a 40 tooth blade on their and it is a combo. No rakers which help get rid of all those wood particles generated by ripping. A true rip blade is usually 24 or 30 tooth flat ground and designed to take off excessive saw-dust generated by ripping.
Just for fun, try decreasing and increasing your feed rate to see what happens. BTW, what kind of wood do you have and what is the thickness and the moisture content. Also, do you notice the stock coming back together after it clears the splitter?
Luck...
sarge..jt
Good to see all those Forrest hype dollars are so effective. Sticking with the alternatives.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing
I still think if you want to rip, chose a rip blade. If you choose to x-cut then chose a x-cut blade. Of you want to cut fibre family wood chose a blade that can cleanly cut the particle board family.
Combo blades may cut great, but specialized blades will cut better
Hey Adrian,
I've got around ten blades, probably 6 different manufacturers. I've got Forrest, Tenyru, others in that lot, no Freuds.
What alternatives are you using that you find comparable. How do they compare in cost to the Forrest?
LeeLee Grindinger
Furniture Carver
Hi Lee;
I've got lots of blades too (currently running forty or more at a guess, between the two shops), and I've been through lots more over the years. There are a few Freuds in there, I buy them when I'm stuck, but i'm not a big fan and they are overpriced in my area. I've got one Forrest, and I've looked at them and seen them demonstrated at shows.....way overhyped in my opinion, and WAY overpriced. Never seen one in use in anything but a small pro shop. The stuff about sharpening is bunk also, IMO.
As I've said here before, I like true industrial blades, which are often sold through sharpening shops. They all use good carbide, they just don't write ad copy like Forrest implying it's some sort of secret wonder material. They don't advertise much, and hardly at all in the hobby magasines. Royce-Ayr are good, for bigger industrial machines Gladu or Ghudo are good. There are other good lines also that I don't have first hand experience with.I have several Dimars, which are good. I have quite a lot iof FS Tools, and they are pretty much my first choice now; excellent quality, and they are priced well below Freuds in my area, and are way more blade. Priced far below Forrests. On the blades where I can do a direct comparison between my Forrest and the equivalent FS Tools, I much prefer the FS Tools for longevity and cut quality. Cost me about half the Forrest also.
i think, as I've said before, that one of the reasons Forrest gets such a good rep in forums like this are that the owners are often hobbyists, and they don't have enough basis for comparison; the Forrest is better than the blade that came with the saw, so they buy the whole marketing line about Forrest being an uber blade, instead of simply being one of many good blades.
That's my opinion, anyway.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing
Thanks Adrian.
LeeLee Grindinger
Furniture Carver
Do you have an outlet for the blades your talking about? I live in a rural area and would need to order it online.
David, The following link will get you there. Brian http://www.forrestblades.com/
Brian, I didn't state my question correctly. I have Forrest blades and was interested in an outlet for the blades Adrian uses. Adrian said they are as good as Forrest and cost less. I'm for that! I live in rural KS. ( not in the middle of nowhere, but you can see it from here) and would need to order them through a catalog or over the internet and have stuff shipped. If there is no way to do that with these companies I can't do business with them. Thanks
A recent email I received from FS Tools (I asked for West Coast contacts):
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If someone finds ####place where FS tool blades are alot cheaper than Forrest please post the info here.Adrian lives in Canada I believe.That is a different market.I don't think F S tool blades are much cheaper than Forrest in this country.They certainly aren't alot cheaper at Bull sharpening service.roland.
FS blades available from http://www.carbide.com
Thanks!
Forestgirl-thanks for the info.
Here's one place I buy a lot of blades, but it's best to deal with your local reps, and obviously you may need to shop around to get consistent good pricing (http://www.normand.ca/). They don't have pricing on the website (they do have 'promotional catalogues though....the print versions have prices on them. In general, I think every serious woodworker, hobbyist or pro, would do very well to hook themselves up with industrial suppliers like this, instead of buying from the retail 'boutique' places. I know that a lot of their supplies and hardware....if it's something I can get at the retailer or through an industrial supplier.....the prices are often exactly double at the retailer, and the level of service and technical support from the industrial supplier is much higher.). I usually pay about $99 Cdn. for a 10" melamine blade (in the XL4000 range, that's their premium line), $59 for a combo or a rip, anywhere from about seventy bucks to low hundreds for a crosscut......Forrests all start much higher than that in my country, and go up from there (even Freuds are a lot higher than that here).....Lee Valley is carrying them at $159-175 for the Woodworker blades, and the price goes up from there for Chopmasters etc. from the Forrest website. I am NOT looking for the lowest price on a blade, and if I thought the Forrests were worth the premium, I'd pay it. I do not believe one blade can 'do it all', either, so I have a lot of blades, for different applications.
I'm not saying FSTools are a miracle, or that Forrests are junk; they're both good blades, and there are others too. The Forrest 'legend' and the premium prices are entirely the result of marketing and hype, though.....my opinion only, though I know it is shared by a lot of sharpeners and woodworkers I've discussed this with. If someone has a different opinion, that's fine too, but the wider the basis for comparison, the better (and there are lots of people with more experience than me). Heck, maybe I'll buy a Forrest just to put it through it's paces.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Adrian is right about having a couple of industrial suppliers on your list, which reminds me that Ballew Saw and Tools also sells FS Tools items. Their web-site isn't the greatest, but their printed catalog is very, very extensive. They carry most of the brands that our professional Knotheads recommend, lots and lots of cutters, blades, shapers and more, at good prices.
Adrian wrote: "Heck, maybe I'll buy a Forrest just to put it through it's paces." I really should do that too, because my gut feeling is that there are a number of other blades that work as well as the Forrest and aren't near as expensive.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Here's a link to an article about carbide saw basics, in case anyone is interested; not the final word, but a good article, and it points out one of the reasons I don't believe in a one-blade-does-it-all world....there are always tradeoffs. Yhere are a number of other articles on their too, including one on carbide....doesn't mention C4 specifically, but it does tell you why the grdae has to be matched to the application.
The guy that wrote these articles writes for the Canadian wood trade mag, and runs a sharpening service. Deals Leuco blades, another good industrial name with virtually no advertising in the non-professional magasines.
http://www.bcsaw.com/articles/art_tt06.htmcabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Adrian,
Where do you get your FS Tools saw blades?
You can get FS Tool blades from http://www.carbide.com
Another echo....forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest Girl: Must of taken your Quite "Naughty" Girl pills again today huh?? LOL........
Took 2 for good measure today -- I was waaaayyyy too nice yesterday!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
What's your point? I gave him the requested information before I finished reading the entire thread. As I continued on in the thread, I noticed that someone had already provided the same information. Rather than using up bandwidth explaining all this or taking the time to apoligize to those who are particularly offened by redundant posts, I trusted that most readers would consider it harmless error and ignore it. My trust was obviously misplaced.
Thanks for the help guys.
Sorry, sorry, sorry! I was just joking around (guess you missed Sarge's post too). Didn't mean to make your Monday worse than it already was.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Me too.
Lately I'm liking Leitz. 1/2 the price of a WW II.The proof is in the puddin'
Hi, I just bought a WWII at a recent woodworking show in Sacramento and it beats any blade I've owned so far.
The Forrest Folk left me with a piece of advice when using their blade.
Raise the blade higher than I have read to do in the past. The reason for this is that the teeth will come in at a greater angle and you don't have teeth in 100% of the kerf at all times. This reduces burn and saw marks.
Seems to work for me. Later, Brian
and esp. to forestgirl- if you think forrest has a limited product line you have never received their full info package. they make literally dozens of different blades, sizes, configurations, tooth grinds, -you name it- for every conceivable material and application. if you want a true flat top grind, or angled top, or even angled face shear, etc, etc, etc, all you have to do is ask, and a surprising variety are standard grinds with designated stock numbers. they won't do it for nothing, but you can get unusual stuff with relatively little hassle. (fyi- they also custom bore for non-standard arbor diameters at a reasonable cost- i think $7 or so)
i'm a huge fan, but my requirements (super-anal, super-low volume hobbyist with relatively little price sensitivity) are not the same as most others.
m
I stand corrected, Mitch. Clearly, their usual ads pretty much under-represent the line.
PS: I wish I could have "little price sensitivity"!! LOL!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have two Forrest blades now and couldn't be happier.
And yeah I'm a "Hobbyist". And I don't really care much about the price of things- but mostly because when I actually get an hour to work in my shop I DON'T want to sand, or run an edge through the jointer to "clean" it up. Since I got the Forrest blade neither of these things are even remotely something I need to worry about. And you DO need a jointer at some point in time- for warped, cupped, and generally bad boards. For edges with a Forrest blade? Glue lines? Haven't come remotely close in years to needing a jointer for edges. And my new Forrest WWII flat grind... wow. My tennon work has just become enjoyable again.
As for the guys who are getting bad cuts- I say send the blade to Forrest. They have been more than helpful in the past. On the flip side... I had a buddy with somewhat the same problem- his fence would move ever so slightly as he ripped stock. See if you have any deflection.
And I just had to chime in on the thick stock. I just ran some 2" Jarrah through last month. And I had one very small burn mark on one of the hardest resin filled ill tempered wood ever... and that was because I forgot that it smelled like hot dogs when you cut it. I'm constantly amazed and how fast I can rip thick wood with my WWII without burn marks or bogging the blade down.
And on the whole price issue... My new Father-in-law has been cranking out all manner of furniture for a living the last 50 years. He even refuses to buy a plate jointer because he can just slap a "replacement" blade on his router. After his last visit to my shop... guess what he asked for Christmas? Hahaha, Christmas in July? Sure, why not. :)
Sorry I typed so much- too much coffee this morning.
With regard to possible fence deflection: It seem to me, and I could easily be wrong here, that if the fence is deflecting then either the direction of the operator's pushing motion is incorrect, or the splitter is nudging the wood toward the fence (assuming everything else is tuned correctly). Any thoughts?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Certainly the splitter giving a slight nudge one way or another is a problem (and would be the first thing I checked)- though I was thinking of your other idea... and quite simply that the fence itself might not be... um, sturdy. The pressure against the fence at the beginning of the cut as compared to the finial push of the end through the blade is quite a bit different. Therefore if the fence isn't solid, or on some tightened correctly- the fence will be constantly feeding the blade a different line.
On my buddy's saw the solution turned out to be a new fence. Discovered by using clamps on either end of the fence to make sure it didn't move in the slightest. The problem was "corrected" and much buying commenced. This is all along the lines if everything else doesn't make sense give it a shot.
their ads show a relatively small fraction of what you can really get from them- even on stock items, not special order. it wouldn't surprise me if someone dreamed up some sort of specialized, dedicated dado set for some bizarre application they'd make it without a fuss.
m
My neighbor had the same problems you describe with a new Forrest blade. He thought it was his saw, I put the blade on my cabinet saw and got same lousy results. I put an Amana rip blade on his saw to test the saw. Good results with the Amana. He returned the blade for another. New blade does the job. Even quality companys like Forrest can have an occasional bad products.
I haven't read through everything here but it doesn't seem that there is any discussion of keeping a blade clean.
WWII and many other brands are planer blades, the sides of the teeth are parallel to the sides of the blade and are designed to shave the cut edge of the board, if the sides of the teeth get gummed up they will rub and burn the stock. Fairly often I've found that just cleaning the blade solves a cutting problem that no amount of adjusting seemed to fix.
John W.
Good point. I have noticed a build-up on the blade that i periodically need to clean off. I use that orange cleaner which works really well. The cuts I make afterward are usually a little better.
You're right, but the Forrest comes as close as you can with a saw blade.
I have on on my tablesaw and the cross cutting is as good as most dedicated crosscut blades. With a crosscutting fixture on the saw I go to it before I go to my chopsaw because it's not as noisy and my chopsaw has a decent blade (just noisy).
The Forrest WWII was the first real quality blade I ever bought. I've never owned Freud or some of the other brands that are thought very highly of so can't say that Forrest is *better*, but I *can* say that it performs equally well in crosscut or rip mode, for me. A properly adjusted fence and saw will produce an amazing rip. Crosscut with virtually no fuzz even on plywood.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I have the WWII blade and it does cut very well. As some of the other posts stated it can't replace a jointer, but I do get cuts good enough for glue joints, on stock 3/4 or less. Any thing over that and you will have to do some cleanup with another method. The cross custs are very smooth even in thicker material. I also have a CMT combo blade that is just as good and was a little less expense. Once a WWII gets dull the only way that I have found to get it sharpened correctly again is to send it back to the factory, I haven't found a local or mail order yet that can get it right.
Are they worth the money, I think so. If you are doing this for a hobby the last thing that you want is things that give you problems or frustrate you. Since this is a hobby for me I have a very limited budget, and limited shop space. With a good blade I was able to forgo the purchase of a jointer at least for a while. I do see the need for a jointer, and plan on getting one in the future ( and a bandsaw, and a widebelt sander, and a ......) but buying a good blade has been one of my better purchases.
"Any thing over that and you will have to do some cleanup with another method." Or, you cold buy a rip blade that's made for thicker material. For instance, the Freud LU87R, suggested for material 3/4" to 2-3/4" thick, considered a glue-line rip blade, runs less than $50:http://www.internationaltool.com/freudthinkerfrippingblades.htm
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
A couple of points. C4 carbide is not necessarily the best for all applications. Most blade manufactures tailor the carbide hardness to the type of material being cut and the type of cut. Softer carbide is best for ripping and harder is best for abrasive laminate material.
In discussions with Forrest tech guys, they will say that their 40 tooth blade is intended for crosscutting most thicknesses and ripping 1" or less material. They agree that even 1" material like cherry may burn when ripped with that blade. For ripping 1" and thicker they recommend their 30 tooth blade and for material over 1 1/2", their 20 tooth blade is recommended.
If you do much ripping, considering the 30 tooth blade may be the best choice. It crosscuts very well (almost as good as the 40 tooth-you would probably not see the difference) and it rips better if you are using high sugar or thicker stock.
Like everyone else says, buy it! It was like the saw came to life. I still use the jointer but just one pass, not three.
I vote 2 thumbs up on Forrest blades, have 8" on compound miter slide saw and and 10" on both TS and RAS, I'm sold on them..but send them back to forrest to be sharpened! in fact I sent all my blades that needed sharpened to Forrest this past winter and they seem to preform well, they get used for things I don't really want to use the Forrest for! They have seemed to stay sharper for me than others and I have ripped and glued right from the saw.
The ww2 is a good blade. I recently used it to make some raised panels using a jig with my contractor saw. The cross-cuts were made first and then I cut the rip cuts. The wood was hard maple. I did get some burning but I think this had more to do with the 1.5 hp motor and the blade being a little dull from use. The smoothness of the cuts were like glass. In comparison with a jesada blade I purchased, the cuts made with it were rougher and required more sanding, but i do wish that forrest made a blade that would give a square cut.
The lack of options with the Forrest brand blades is something that baffles me. It's certainly in their best interest to convice buyers that you can do everything with one (or maybe 2) blades, because they offer such limited choices. This is a part of their marketing strategy that no one ever mentions.
Plenty of flat top blades out there to choose from.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I seem to recall an ad that I think was from forrest. They were offering custom grinding on their blades so that you could make dovetail joints. I think this was accomplished by grinding the teeth at whatever angle you told them, say like 8 degrees. Then you would end up with flat bottoms and a nice clean angle. does anyone know if this was indeed forrest?
Forrest will indeed grind blades for making dovetail joints. Not sure which issue it is but FWW has an article on this and I think they even mention that Forrest provides this service. I have 2 thin kerf Forrest blades and would not hesitate to buy from them again.
I have 40+ carbide saw blades from about all brands except Tenru and a buddy of mine swears by them. I, like others think it's just hype. My favorite brand so far is F.S. blades. But then again I have almost every blade combination out there. From positive and negative hook to hollow face(they're a PITA) to High top ATB to hight top ATB with a Holland grind to triple chip flat top grinds. from c-3 to the lastest with corrosion resistand carbide to even TanTung(Freeborn shaper cutters) made for solid lumber, no glue lines or composition materials (P.B., MDF). Took me over 20 years to collect this inventory and that doesn't even start to figure in router bits and shaper cutters.
Just remember to use the right blade for the right application.
And, most of all, KEEP THEM SHARP. Dull blades create more heat, which in turn causes warping of blades. Dull blades also create premature wear on the carbide and causes the blades to need a more aggressive sharpening. Finish grit on the diamond wheels for sharpening is another major issue, along with tensioning of the blades to keep the plates flat. Find a HIGH QUALITY sharpening service, even if it means shipping them somewhere else.
My preference in SoCal is D&D Saw and Supply(Alliance Tool) in San Diego and Bairco Saw in Corona, Calif. Bairco is a small family owned company and the guy that does the custom profile shaper cutters is one of the best I have seen in many years.
When I move soon, I'll be shipping my cutters/blades to them. Yeah, this is a plug for Bairco, but that's how I feel about their quality
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled