Forrest WWII vs Freud Premier Fusion 410
gwsaltspring
| Posted in General Discussion on
Anyone played with these two head to head? I’m sure there have been discussions on this forum but I’m afraid I don’t seem to be very good at searching them out.
Greg
Replies
I'd love to have the chance Greg, but so far have not. I've read of a few that have compared the P410 and WWII, and they seem impressed with the P410.
I did spend alot of time watching the demo and talking with "Jerry", the owner of In-Line Industries, who was demoing the P410 for Peachtree.
From a design concept, the P410 has the advantage of a Hi-ATB grind for the cleanest cut, plus the double angle side clearance for polishing the edge. It's pretty innovative in comparison to many, many copies of the same ole stew. The downside may be edge life, but Freud claims their latest micrograin carbide is finer and holds an edge better than previous versions. Time will tell...
You betcha I'll have one the next time an attractive sale comes along!
Edited 2/3/2007 7:38 pm ET by Knotscott
I just asked my tool guy at the local lumber yard to price one out for me (Fusion that is). I may not always buy NA tools but I try to keep the money circulating in my local economy.Thanks again for your input.GregBTW can you explain the double angle side clearance thingyEdited 2/3/2007 9:07 pm by gwsaltspring
Edited 2/3/2007 9:08 pm by gwsaltspring
Greg,The P410 Premier Fusion is the first (and so far the only) offering in this new line and it is 40T, full kerf. The double angle side grind consists of a small area on the sides of the tips which has virtually no relief angle and serves to burnish the cut edge. Freud cutting tools are manufactured in Italy and currently we do not offer sharpening in North America.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Sorry for going a bit off topic but is there a difference in the Freud shaper cutters with red/orange paint and blue metallic paint?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Wow, the blue takes me way back. AFAIK, we discontinued the blue about 20 years ago so they are from before my time. We now use the red PermaSHIELD on our coated cutters. BTW, the color Red is trademarked by Freud so you won't see any of our tools in orange.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
It must have been the lighting, plus the fact that it's not in front of me. Glad I could lend come nostalgia to an otherwise bleak Monday. lol
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Hi Charles - Since the Fusion has a somewhat unusual geometry, what will be the best way to have the original specs duplicated during resharpening?
Hi Charles;Thanks for your reply. In talking to my tool guy today looks like this blade won't be available in Canada for several months. So I was wondering about picking up a Glue line rip blade in the meantime. Any comments on how the Fusion will rip compared to the Glue line. I am looking to build some shop storage and was thinking of using MDF over the usual birch ply.Greg
Greg,The LM74 series Glue Line Rip is definitely a faster and more efficient ripper than the P410 while the surface finish will be very similar between the two. I'm not sure how that factors into your comment about using MDF.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Thanks Charles for your reply. You answered my question reguarding the quality of the rip between the two.
Greg
Will Freud have actual company people in Milwaukee for the WoodWorking Show?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
AFAIK, we will have dealers at the show but no direct company reps.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Scott,We have been using the double angle side grind on our LU85 Ultimate Cutoff blades for many years. The sharpening process is to top grind only. Every fourth sharpening the face should be lightly touched with the wheel. Sharpening instructions are included with the blades.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Charles, you mention that the full kerf is the "first (and so far the only) offering in this new line." Are there plans for a TK version of this blade, and if so, any idea when it might be available in the U.S.?
Greg,We plan to make a TK version in the future but it will come after the rest of the full kerf diameters are shipped.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
$91.00 here: http://freud-tools.com/freudpremfse.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
Thanks for posting that link. It's a good deal on the F410 Premier Blade. Please be aware that it is not the new P410 Premier Fusion Blade.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Oopps; Sorry What is the big Idea of naming two products P410 and F410 and causing a confusion? wouldn't this agravate potential customers? <g>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
I hate that I'm not far enough up the Freud food chain to have control over item numbers;~>
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Any I have seen were situations where someone bought an new F410, put it on their saw and said it cut better than their WWII. The problem is that the F410 is new and newly sharpened and the WWII is obviously used and who knows, how sharp.
I've seen no objective tests.
"Any I have seen were situations where someone bought an new F410, put it on their saw and said it cut better than their WWII. The problem is that the F410 is new and newly sharpened and the WWII is obviously used and who knows, how sharp."Howard makes a great point...kind of like the phenomenom of getting new spark plugs!
Edited 2/4/2007 6:33 am ET by Knotscott
I had a new WWII in my table saw. Only a little over a year old. Only cut some Cherry with it It was working well. I read about this blade and saw the demo at the wood working show in Baltimore. I bought one and tried it on my saw. The WWII is in the case and the Fusion is on the saw. It definately works better, for me. After sharpening, who knows?? I'v heard that Feud sharpening service is not too good.
Barry In WV ...
Edited 2/4/2007 12:45 am ET by Anderson
How bad can their sharpening service be if their new blades are sharpened by the same people (if they aren't made offshore)?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
>> (if they aren't made offshore)?Freud blades are made in Italy.Howie.........
Oh, right. OK, so their sharpening service is in the US? I wonder if they have the same equipment and training. It really should be repeatable. CharlesM? Any light you can shed, either way?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I didn't know Freud even offered a sharpening service.
I was just going by the previous comment in post #5 that their service isn't what it could be.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 2/4/2007 12:31 pm by highfigh
One further question, well in my case that is unlikely. Since I am looking to run this primarily on my job site Bosch 4000 what are the pros and cons to TK over Regular?Greg
>> Oh, right. OK, so their sharpening service is in the US?As I responded to Anderson right above, Freud does NOT have any sharpening service.Howie.........
OK, thanks. I only have one of their blades and it's not an upper-end one. There's a shop near me that will/can sharpen just about anything and he does a lot of industrial stuff. I need to talk to him about some other things and see what he knows about the Fusion 410. I have talked with him about Forrest and while he thinks they're good, he said they're a bit on the high price end and I have seen some in his shop, either incoming or outgoing.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I believe Forrest is in the best position to reproduce the original cutting edges within the limits of wear as it is the same company that resharpens the blades. I've had my WWII resharpened twice satisfactorily. If you purchase a Forrest at a woodworking show, you may get coupons for free sharpening which save. I have not been too happy with my local sharpener, nor his Systematic blades.
Woodsurgin
My WWII is 13 years old and I sent it to them for sharpening.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
>> I'v heard that Feud sharpening service is not too good.Freud doesn't have a sharpening service.Howie.........
No I haven't compared these two, but at the moment I am doing an heads-up between the WWII an the Amana Prestige line, an to tell you the truth it's a very close race with Forrest starting to fall a little behind, an it may be true like forrest says that their teeth are made of a little harder material, but also you have to keep in mind a forrest blade cost $80.00 to $100.00 a piece, where a Amana cost $40.00 to $50.00.
I'll keep everyone up to date on this test right now I am about 100 Hours....
I get a bit confused by numbering system at times. I think I am asking about the P410 as opposed to the F410. The F410 was reviewed in the 2002 FWW article I have read and is a different blade I believe (don't think the P410 was introduced until 2006). If I have this all wrong perhaps someone can correct me. Thanks for your input everyone.Greg
Greg,
I belive you are correct. I understand that the P410 now comes in both thin-kerf and standard (1/8). The standard kerf blade is on my "buy now" list, but my regular dealer cannot seem to get his hands on one. I will just have to wait.
-Jerry
"...but my regular dealer cannot seem to get his hands on one. I will just have to wait." I think the orders have been so high (various shows and such) that there's been a supply problem. If I remember right, they're reported to be coming back in stock toward the middle of this month.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Amazon has the P410 listed at $99.99. They say it's the best price. Router Bit World has it at the same price.
I have both. And I would give the edge to the Freud. Here is a pic of a rip in oak and a cut in plywood. The surface of the oak is like glass. The bottom part of the plywood is shown in the photo and has no tearout at all.
CharlesM, if you reading this, please send my congratulations to the engineers and manufacturing folks at home office.
Cheers,
Peter
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