Replies

1. 
   Rich14 | Jul 20, 2005 01:50am | #1

   Wood,

   I have finished many pieces over many years using french polishing techniques. I'm proud of the skill and love the end results. I'm good at it. I love the finish that shellac imparts.

   But honestly, I cannot tell the difference, months later between my best efforts at french polishing and either sprayed shellac or lacquer, appropriately rubbed out. The "secret" is using automotive paint rubbing abrasives which are much more uniform, predictable and effective than pumice and rottenstone. Much of it is standard technique. Here's how to do it.

   Prepare the wood as you wish, either planing or sanding to final finish. I recommend final sanding to about 220-320 grit. It depends on the specie. With maple, 220 seems to be all that is needed, tropical hardwoods do better with higher grades, even up to 400 grit. I do not stain my pieces, but I may use linseed oil for color development of certain woods at this point, then silex wood filler. The silex is important. If you use stain or dye, apply it before or after the silex filler, depending on the color effect you're after. Or no stain/dye at all, but always silex. You can incorporate dye in the silex to add contrast to the wood grain, or leave the silex uncolored to become "invisible" as a pore filler. Make sure to get all excess silex off the wood surface by scraping first with a plastic/wood/cardboard scraper, then rubbing with rags.

   Apply 2 very light coats of dewaxed 2# cut shellac (whether shellac or lacquer will be the final coat) as the sanding sealer about an hour apart. Give it overnight, then level the raised grain with the same grit used for the final wood preparation, or one grade finer. Repeat if you want.

   Then on a daily schedule, shoot 3 light applications an hour apart of either 2# cut shellac or the lacquer of your choice. No need to sand between each of these 3 applications, but starting with the second day of this schedule, first level the surface absolutely smooth with an unbroken matte scratch pattern using 400 grit paper and a cork or rubber sanding block lubricated with mineral spirits. Wash with mineral spirits. Make absolutely certain the mineral spirtis has completely evaporated before applying finish.

   Spraying lightly means just barely, but completely wet the surface, but not enough finish to sag or run. Don't worry too much if you get dust drying in the surface or if the gun is a little too far from the surface and it dries "pebbly," you are going to rub out the surface before each day's spraying.

   The number of daily applications is up to you. A minimum of 4 is necessary. Try 6-8 the first time. Let the last application dry for at least 2 weeks. Then level with 4-0 wet-or-dry lubricated with mineral spirits or water/detergent (2 drops of liquid dishwashing detergent per quart of water). Use a cork or rubber sanding block. When completely and evenly abraded, go to 600 wet-or-dry, then 1000-1200 wet-or-dry. As you near the end point with each grit, the abrasive paper/sanding block will try to stay stuck to the surface like it's a suction cup. Use plenty of lubricant. Each succussive grit must result in a completely even matte finish to the entire surface. Wash with the same lubricant between grits.

   Then rub with automotive rubbing compound (rouge color, "No. 7" brand is good) and a rag. The technique is to use the solvent/vehicle in the compound as lubricant for the first few minutes of rubbing, then as the solvent evaporates and as the abrasive turns to a white powder on the surface, use drier parts of the rag, or a dry rag to just buff it until it diappears. Create a completely even scratch pattern.

   Wash the surface with mineral spirits to get rid of every trace of abrasive. Then go on to polishing compound (white "No. 7" brand). Same technique. Wash (then dry) the surface. Make sure not to contaminate finer abrasive with more coarse.

   It will look mighty good at that point, but you ain't seen nothing yet. Rub with "swirl remover" (white "nu-car" brand). Same technique, and watch the transformation from a highly polished finish to a brilliantly polished finish.

   Admire your reflection. Enjoy.

   Rich

1. 
   JayS | Jul 20, 2005 03:18am | #3

   Can you suggest a specific brand and source for silex?  Have you everh ad problems with the pores turning white later?  I am involved in another thread on the use of plaster of Paris as a pore filler, and am trying to decide how to best finsih a piece made of Western Walnut.  I have had some bad experiences where the pumice has turned all the pores white, 6-9 months after French polishing.  (ie, the pumice was initially transparent and became visible later)  I'm especially afraid of this in a project from a naturally dark colored wood. Thanks a lot.

   Jay

1. 
   Rich14 | Jul 20, 2005 04:38am | #4

   Jay,

   I have never had a problem with silex wood filler turning white. I also have never had pumice turn white under shellac, but have heard of that happening. I can't remember the reference, but a Google search about a year ago turned up extensive advice about all things related to french polishing and pumice issues.

   I've never worried about the brand of silex filler, I assume they're all the same. Behlens, Moore, generic, whatever. Just use shellac as the sealer under lacquer and you'll be alright. Color the filler with dark brown oil-based stain a few shades darker than the walnut, scrub it into the pores, let it glaze over and rub all excess off the wood.

   On the other hand, one of the most beautiful finishes to put on walnut is oil or better yet, oil/varnish, without filling the pores. Unfortunately, the first offers no protection, and the second can be less protection that you need if the piece receives any handling.

   You can achieve that close-to-the wood look of oil/varnish, with a lacquer finish on unfilled walnut, applied as thin coats and rubbed out to a low sheen. This is as beautiful and more durable than oil/varnish.

   Rich

2. 
   philip | Jul 20, 2005 01:21pm | #9

   Hi Rich,
   Your comment "I cannot tell the difference between my best efforts at French polishing and either sprayed shellac or lacquer"----I wish we could get together and thrash that one out, because to this day I am still looking for a finish that even equals F/P for beauty- there is nothing to beat it. In a nut shell, French polish has depth, whilst a flawless* rubbed lacquer or rubbed shellac has no depth, or character: F/P is to those two as your old time auto Duco is to present day clear coat on top of two part .....Understand I am talking of appearances only.
   The first person to come up with the beauty of true F/P out of a spray gun will become a rich man.
   It's hard to describe-you have to experience it.
   *The trouble is that by the time you arrive at that dead level rouge rubbed de-swirled mirror finish, it looks just that-like your Jaguar walnut woodwork-beautiful but no character.
   I think that the explanation lies in the fact that proper F/P is very very thin indeed, whilst all those coatings of the other stuff is just too thick in the end and you can't see into it.
   It's a tough one.

1. 
   Rich14 | Jul 20, 2005 01:59pm | #10

   Philip,A few years ago, I may have agreed with you, but not now. And it's not because my french polish technique has diminished. But I know what you mean.Lack of character in a sprayed and rubbed lacquer or shellac finish? Nope none of that lack of character today please, waiter. I'll have somehing else, please.It's the hand rubbing that makes the difference, both for FP technique, or any other final finishing method. In fact, It's possible to make varnish, even water-borne look like french polish.There is no lack of clarity or "fire" in the finish I've described, and no advantage in those characteristics in the FP method.You're right about the importance of the thinness of the finish. It may be that I spray thinner coats now than years ago. I did emphasize the importance of that in my description. If applied heavy enough, one achieves the classic "piano finish" which is the same as the "Jaguar-walnut-wood trim-look." Perfect, but has the look of wood under glass. I guess cars need that much film thickness of finish on wood parts to withstand the environment of that situation.FP (and the rubbed finish I described) is "closer" to the wood, but there is no denying that a FP surface is "above" the wood and is separate from the wood itself. Not at all like an oil or oil/varnish which make the surface of the wood itself gleam.FP work has a slight "wavy" appearance that mimics the wood texture below. It's more a suggestion than tactile or really visible. So does the rubbed finish I described. Maybe that's the "character" of the finish you refer to.Nowhere did I say the rubbed finish technique is quick. It takes weeks to accomplish. The film MUST be hard before it is rubbed and sometimes 2 weeks is not enough time to wait before final rubbing. A FP finish could easily be applied in an equal time. But I feel the rubbed technique is more straightforward and more easily taught or learned.And I've never had with the rubbed method the "finishing problems from hell" that happen inexplicably with FP that force one to strip the whole mess down to bare wood and start over.Rich

2. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 20, 2005 03:14am | #2

   In adition to what Rich had to say, I'll offer this: for my last French polishing project, I used Qualasole (sp?) instead of shellac and it worked very well for me.

   I hear Zinsser has come out with a new product specifically for French polishing, but I haven't tried it, nor have any of the people I've asked.

   Please post photos of your completed work and let us know how you liked the experience.

   -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask youself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

1. 
   Rich14 | Jul 20, 2005 04:52am | #5

   Jazz,

   Starting in the 70s, I used a product called Pad-Lac for many years until that became unavailable, then Qualasole, which seems to be exactly like it.

   For the life of me, I have never been able to figure out why it works when it does and why it doesn't when it doesn't. Maybe it's humidity, or other factors that I am not considering, but my track record with it has been completely erratic.

   On the other hand, french polish (shellac with pumice) always behaves the way it's supposed to. And spraying/rubbing shellac or lacquer is truly foolproof. In fact, as long as "finishing the finish," abrasive leveling and rubbing out, is the final part of applying any finish, it's just about fool proof. It simply requires time.

   Rich

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 20, 2005 05:33am | #7

   Rich,

   A few years ago I made a new mahogany body for a 5-string electric bass. Wanted the finish to be repairable, and did not want that "dipped in plastic" look so common to such instruments.

   I sanded-in 6 coats of Liberon finishing oil, gave it a few weeks to cure thoroughly, and french polished with Qualasole. Turned out absolutely beautiful, and was a no-brainer to boot. The Liberon/sawdust slurry completely filled the pores, leaving a glass-smooth surface ready for polish.

   As an aside, have you noticed how many times people will apply dyes, stains, finish, etc., without first removing the mill marks from the raw wood? Every time I see this, it drives me nuts!

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask youself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

3. 
   CharlieD | Jul 20, 2005 05:27am | #6

   Check out http://www.homesteadfinishing.com (can't make links work, just copy and paste. Jeff Jewitt has a great echnique called "padding" shellac that will give you a glorious shellac finish without FP.

   Charlie

   A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
   a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
   build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
   cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
   program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
   Specialization is for insects.
   - Robert A. Heinlein
4. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 20, 2005 05:35am | #8

   You might want to take a look at this:  http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=87

   Howie.........
5. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 20, 2005 05:54pm | #11

   I want a project to look like it has a french polish type finish..

   Then you need to do a FRENCH POLISH.. Nothing matches it..

   I'm NOT good at it... So not fighting you.. I try BUT....