Here’s a question you probably don’t run across every. I have been thinking of building an airplane for a while now, and I had a brain storm the other day. After some consideration of what I’m looking for in a plane, slow stall speed, all wood construction, tough enough to land on my 1/2 mile gravel drive, ect., I’ve started leaning in the direction of a WW1 biplane. Could be a SPAD biplane, Fokker triplane or whatever. I’d like do it myself, and a WW1 plane, with all the wires, wood and cloth, have a certain appeal. My problem is finding a good set of plans for one of them. There are a few kits avalible but I’d rather do it from the ground up, I think. I realize this would be a huge project, so I’d like to have all the info I can find to decide if I should do it or not. If any of you have any ideas, I would sure appreciate the advice.
Thanks,
Steve
Edited 2/8/2003 1:42:22 PM ET by Steve
Replies
Hi Steve,
YOu're probably asking the wrong bunch.
I'd try your local military history group and see what they come up with, but, you never know, someone on this site may have what you need.
Details of a book from 1915 with plans for a wooden airplane are in this thread, but I don't know how airworthy it is.
Cheers,
Andrew
edir: spelling
Edited 2/8/2003 2:25:00 PM ET by eddie (aust)
Thanks Eddie,
Your probably right, but maybe there is someone out there who has some ideas. I live in the sticks (my 3000 sq. mile county has barely 10,000 in it) and the internet is as close as I can get to like minded individuals. I'll take a look at those plans and thanks again. If anyone knows of some other forum were this question would be more relevant, that would be greatly helpful.
Steve
Eddie,
Search the Great War Society. They have links to site about WWI aviation.
I think it would be a daunting task to make a WWI aircraft from scratch. The cross sections of the wings were made of beech and had to have a very particular profile. The entire thing was fly by wire. The wings were only silk over wood. Loose a guy wire and you crash. If you make any mistake in the joinery at all you are going to have a catestrophic failure while at altitude. Many of these planes had the gas tank in front of or over the piolit. Lots of these fellows incerated when they crashed.
There are airplane kits you can buy. Check out Popular mechanics.
What you are proposing is not sensible. Do not do it.
Frank
Cheez, why would you?
As a one-time model aircraft builder, my recollection is that those machines flew like dogs! Not only were they unsafe and unreliable, they were inherently unstable and just loved to crash!
Making a flyable replica - for a museum or for display, for example - would be an heroic undertaking, but I can see why you might. But to make one to fly! You'd have to be an Australian to want to!
I think my lineage is pretty much a bit of everything. Perhaps there is some Aussie in me?! As a ex-modeler, do you know if the wing profile is changed when a plane is scaled down? It seems like it would be a little. I'll probably have to go dig out those old aeronautical engineering books if this actually turns into a project. I'm just guessing that everyone else wouldn't be building one just like it though :)
Steve
Hi Steve,
Even 75 years ago it would have been hard to find an old pilot of one of those planes. I think you should be thinking towards the sea instead of the air. Might I reccomend, oh, say a 1:20ish scale modell of the Tirpitz that you could man and safely cruise a lake on. Bringing a boat to dock would be far less strenuous on your wife then the semi controlled fall to a landing strip or barn roof.
Best regards,
Rastus
Rastus,
Ironically enough, that sounds exactly like something my wife would have talked my brother into saying. Perhaps that would be more sensible though. Although I personally would lean twords the Rodney or something of that ilk. It would be an interesting venture irregardless. I suspect, perhaps you can recommend a WW1 forum? Also, I don't imagine there was a lot of woodworking in evidence on the Tirpitz, where as pilating your Fokker triplane replica would put your joinery to the ultimate test. I do suspect the wife will not approve of this idea in the end and she does get veto power. Oh well. Its fun to consider. Anyway picture frames and pie safes help pay the light bills, and I'm not sure a biplane would help the budget at all.
Take care,
Steve
Tom's reply (#8) is the best, Experimental Aircraft Association is a wild & crazy bunch of guys (and gals) who are really serious about building and flying (safely) airplanes of all types. Check 'em out.
Paul
Very good points. It does sound crazy at times, but still interesting. I'm in the very early stages of even thinking about it. Any thoughts are useful. I wonder if a guy could make a plane with the looks of a WW1 era plane, but with a few upgrades to help out the flight charicteristics? The fuel tank issue is one fairly obvious one that could be changed. I was just watching a history of Glen Curtiss, again, and to see what they used to use was amazing. Thanks for the lead on the Great War Society. Sure wish I could get my hand on a set of plans so I could have a better idea of the nuts and bolts of one. It will probably never be more then an idea, but maybe....
Steve
As a pilot myself, I can only ask "why?", but then, people used to ask me the same thing about flying small craft in general, so I won't ask. But if it's small, strange, and gets airborne, these are the folks you probably want to be associated with. http://www.eaa.org/ Homebuilts, kitplanes, motorized beanies, whatever. And the yearly fly-in in Oshkosh is the most amazing thing I've ever seen. There are others I'm not familiar with, like this http://exp-aircraft.com/ , and if you search on "experimental aircraft" you'll get lots more sites.
Be seeing you...
Tom,
Thanks for responding. I think you gave me just the info I've been hoping would show up. I guess I don't really have a good reason to do it, I'd just like to give it a try someday. What planes do you typically fly? I'm assuming its not motorized beanies. LOL I saw a post from a gentleman who worked for Stinson in 1939 just the other day. I wish I could remember his name. This is one truely diverse collection of people. I really appreciate you taking the time to offer some advice. Now, I wonder if I can talk the wife into Oshkosh for a vacation...
Thanks,
Steve
Steve,
I grew up in a rural area with a crop duster's grass strip not too far away. My dad used to fly so we were down there all the time. This place was a bit unusual in that there was always two or three guys building or repairing a plane. I guess over the years I saw five or six skeletons being assembled or skinned.
What an incredible project! Great fun. Extremely involved and expensive though. And regulated by others - the FAA.
If you're into STOL (short field takeoff and landings), look into building a replica of a Piper Cub or the like. If you want STOL with higher performance, look into Maule - I think they cruise at 140 knots or something like that and I've seen a photo of one leaving the ground 10' from the hanger door.
A Spad? Naw. Not a Spad. Maybe a Stearman.
jdg
jdg,
Stearman ehh. Makes me think...
I grew up around planes too. Not quite as close though. In the ranching country around here, all the very wealthy ranchers owned Piper Cubs. They flew those things everywere. I heard a story once of one of the more excentric of the lot landing on a moving freight train once. We had a blizzard once that closed the roads for a week. My dad had to be flow to the ranch from town in a Cub with skis. Great memories.
My stepfather has built a homebuilt 30 years ago and he said the FAA inspection process was not very difficult, though I suppose things have changed by now.
STOL is very interesting indeed. How the did they get it off the ground in 10ft! Orville and Wilbur would be flabergasted! I guess I'd never heard of a Maule until you mentioned it. I'm looking forward to some research.
Steve
Rent a copy of The Road Warrior - the original one. There is something that looks like a helicopter with a free wheeling blade. It runs with a Volkswagen engine in the back that drives a pusher prop. If the main engine gives out you can freewheel down to earth (theoretically). I always thought that that would be a fun and cheap to make. I think they are called gyrocopters or whirlygigs. I don't think they need much for a runway.
Here's a link to a lengthy thread on autogyros, or gyrocopters, over on Breaktime (some pictures, too). My great uncle built one of the original Bensen (sp?) gyrocopters, and had it hanging from the roof of his manufacturing plant when I was a kid (very foggy memory, here). Beside Road Warrior, there was one flown in one of the early James Bond movies. I remember Popular Science had a feature article on it. http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=22867.1
I took helicopter lessons for a while, but at $120/hr plus instructor, for a tiny Robinson R22 two-seater, it was just too pricey. But I've always thought that if I ever was going to own something, it would be an autogyro. Since the main rotor is unpowered, they can be landed on extremely short runways, well, even a suburban driveway is long enough. These days they have pre-rotators so you don't have to spin the rotor by hand and use a long take-off roll to get it up to speed. Engine-out landings are probably safer in an autogyro than any other craft, too. They have minimal complexity, a simple engine/prop unit, can be built and stored in a garage, and.......oh no, now look what you've done..............where's my stack of Kitplanes magazine?.....Be seeing you...
Steve,
>> How the did they get it off the ground in 10ft!
The pic was from the side outside the hanger. I always suspected that that hanger was large and empty, and that the door on the other end was open with about a 30 knot headwind blowing through. That's the only thing I can imagine. But the ground roll on these things is incredibly short. It's not 10' though.
Maule is a current times aircraft company that makes a couple of models at least. I don't really know very much about them, but that they have extremely slow takeoff & stall speeds, and that the crusing speed is relatively fast for a fixed gear, conventional prop plane. The engines are realtively large. Both models are stick operated, I think. It's been quite a while since I've spent much time studying planes and I'm afraid I've forgotten more about these planes than I remember. I think they are all fabric skinned tail draggers. I remember having the impression that they were very well made, comfortable, basic planes with not much in the line of frills and bells.
jdg
Eaa , is a good start , also try the old rhinebeck aerodrome , they build and fly for the public on week ends , , tri planes had steel tube fuselages .....as did many of the late WWI planes , ..
Good Luck , I wish my wife would let me do something in the same line , ,,,, have always loved the Forkker DVII' s
Bill G.
http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/
Steve -- Tom's advice is good. The EAA is the country's best place to start for home-built info and pilot-owner-builder experiences. Once you connect you'll be able to find many other sources of info including ultralights, kits and oldies. But, whatever you wind up doing, it will take about twice as long as you think it will and maybe a lot more money, expecially if you need a full panel. I don't know where you live, but it is increasingly difficult to fly anywhere without full instrumentation due to everything from terrorism to conflicts with commercial traffic. The WWI plane I always got emotional about is the Pietenpol (sp?), an early French plane with bicycle wheels and a wooden arrow mounted on a wing strut that served as the altimeter: it pointed to a placard that said either UP or DOWN. I've only seen replicas, but they are very simple with lots of plywood. There are still plenty of pilots who love the old designs (some of them commercial pilots) and clubs devoted to replicas as well as contemporary upgrades. Safety is a major factor these days as well it should be. A friend of mine and a very experienced pilot died a couple of years ago in one of those "safe" gyrocopters. Best of luck to you -- Jim
I just wanted to tell you all thanks for participating in this thread, even though it isn't strictly woodworking oriented. I really appreciate the advice and thoughts and warnings. Great group of folks here and I think that you all have reaffirmed that I'm not the only eccentric left. Oh yea, I'm going to do that B-17 ride from the EAA page. Trying to talk my brother into it too. Come on Rastus, it's just money, you can't take it with you!
Steve
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