Hello,
I just finished my latest wooden plane. Hopefully, some of you who use these wooden wonders can jump in and we can compare notes.
This one I made from apricot wood which I harvested about ten years ago. This wood is rock hard and is perfect for planes. Regardless of this, I still insert a desert hardwood into the throat area of all my planes. This one is no exception.
The length of this plane is about 16-1/2 inches and I use Hock irons. For this plane I used a 1-1/2 incher.
I think that all the images are self-explanatory. I also measured elm and pine for comparasion purposes. The elm measured 4/1000-inch, and the pine was 2.5/1000-inch. All of these measurements are meaningless if the sole is not dead flat. I would not say that these tools are high-maintenance, but you do have to pay attention to all the details because each is more important than we think at the time. Failing that, results may differ.
Thanks.
Replies
Philip,
So there are two plane makers named Philip on Knots.
I guess I can tell you two apart. Your Apricot plane looks fabulous. I am not an expert. I made a block plane out of curly maple last year. That is the extent of my plane making, but I plan to make a few more in the future. I hope you get feedback from people who really know wooden planes. Good luck. Please keep posting photos and information.
Thank you and congratulations.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hello Mel!I just posted a message to you about Pfeil gouge sharpening. Good to hear from you.As to the planes, I've been making mine for too many years to be honest about. I love them because of what you can do with them. But as they say, the devil is in the details.Thanks for your comments. Since you're a carver as well, I hope we can chat about that as well.Regards,
PhillipP.S. I just took a look at those Spderco ceramics. I will order those tomorrow.
Edited 11/13/2007 10:31 pm by PhillipB
It's obvious that your plane works well, but I do have one question. Given that the iron does not extend out of the body, what is your method for adjusting the iron laterally? Also I have been considering designing and building a woodie that uses a lever cap in lieu of a wedge. Have you considered this in your plane designing/making?
Ron Brese
http://www.breseplane.com
Ron,Good question.Cutting right to the chase: I don't worry about lateral adjustment at all. All I care about is that the edge of the iron is as parallel to the sole of the plane (which is the goal of lateral adjustment) as is humanly possible. I am, of course, assuming that you have a functional throat to work with. I do not believe in 'adjusting' the throat after the plane is completed. My throats are set prior to glue-up and will (hopefully) still be that way afterwards.In a nut shell, all that I do to set my plane is to find a flat surface - I prefer glass, but anything similar will do ( I think ), gently place the iron in place and tap the wedge in snugly. I'm now good to go. I've read time and again, that you should gaze sagely down the back of the plane and set the iron by sight. I have no doubt that that method works because I've done it myself. But what I'm really after is just getting the iron to protrude a few microns beyond the sole. My just-descirbed method does this for me and in a fraction of the time.Again, this only works if:
(1) Your sole is dead flat. If your sole is not flat, it matters little how much you laterally adjust your iron because the plane will not cut properly;(2) You paid attention to all those little details such as making absolutely sure that the surface that the iron lays against was cut perfectly perpendicular to the vertical sides of your plane body. IOW's, if you used a table saw (as I do) to make this cut, it is time well spent to make certain that the blade is absolutely perpendicular to your table saw surface before you make this cut. It's not the 45-degrees (or whatever angle you wanted) that's important here: it's whether or not the blade will be skewed when it exits the throat. To be clear, the iron exits the throat, not parallel to the sole (as viewed down the sole from either end), but skewed to it. You may not think this is possible, but you're talking to an expert in this as I have actually made on of these beasts.Bottom line here is that the glass ensures that the edge of the iron is parallel to the sole. The friction of the wedge should be just enough to make the iron protrude sufficiently to allow it to make those gentle swoos-shing cuts that are music to our ears.In a pinch, there is enough of the iron visible behind the wedge to facilitate the use of a small screwdriver if this were ever necessary. This never crossed my mind before your question was posed.I hope I have answered your excellent question.Off topic. I took a look at your website. You make some very impressive planes. Years ago I was forced to purchase a LN scraping plane. I'm still trying to pay it off, BTW. This was before LV came out with their own scraper. But I needed that toothed blade to flatten a large walnut crotch coffee table I was creating. Lots of sweat (and money) went into that pieceHave a good evening,
Phillip
Edited 11/14/2007 12:45 am by PhillipB
Phillip,I assumed that the method you described was in fact the method you used, hence my question about the use of a lever cap. With a lever cap one would have more control over the pressure applied to the iron on set up and not have to worry about a tap on the wedge knocking things out of line and having to then start over once again. Of course I also realize that you probably have gotten quite accustomed to doing things this way and have no problem setting the irons in your planes. The lever cap is just something you may want to consider in your future plane making just to make setting up your planes simpler. One could even make a perfectly serviceable lever cap from wood. It's really just a loose wedge with a fastener of some sort to apply pressure.RonIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
To All,
I made a mistake with my last image: that is really elm wood, not rock maple. This image is of rock maple. Pleae excuse my error.
Thanks.
Last winter, I made a similar plane, about 18" long, out of hornbeam. Yours looks good. My question is about the fine-tuning of your plane. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not sure what the 0.003" reading on the shaving is supposed to demonstrate. With a longer plane, my goal is not to get a thin shaving, so 0.003" would be an acceptable shaving. (I think it's a pretty thick shaving, not scrub plane thick, but certainly not super thin.) However, I would be concerned if my 18" plane couldn't take anything thinner, because it might indicate that the sole is slightly concave in its length. When this plane's sole is flat, or flat in the crucial spots, then you should be able to take an even thinner shaving. Again, if you are using it for jointing, then a superthin shaving is not crucial, but flatness of the sole is, or you will be continually planning bumps on your edge joints, which will eventually drive you to madness!
-Andy
Hi PhillipB,
Sweet plane. I love making and using wooden handplanes. I have made 5 so far and likely will make more in the future.
I like the fact that you can shape them to fit your hand, put grips on as you did, use different woods, etc. really endless as to you can do.
When I first learned to use one, I was kind of uncoordinated in the adjustment of the iron, adjusting the depth, side to side and so forth, now, I don't even really think about it. For me, because I use them so much, it's more difficult and takes longer for me to set up a plane that uses an adjusting screw.
I do not have any pictures of all of my planes, but there is one in the Gallery section archives of this website. If you would care to, search "race car handplane" and it should come up.
Anyway, beautiful work, I look foward to seeing more.
Thanks
Perry,Thanks for taking a look. You slider is awesome. No wheels? What kind of racer is that? It hovers down the track? Just kidding.All these things are works of art as far as I'm concerned. Helps if they can actually plane the wood, too. Ha. My next slider will me made of (probably) apple wood. I have some 100 year old apple that is pretty special not only because of its age and swirling grain, but also because of an old timer, Don Manual Crespin, who used to play in this particular tree as a child in Northern New Mexico. He was 93 years young when he left us about 5-6 years ago. I loved this gentleman as he reminded me of my own Grandfather who raised me. Both were wood workers as well.Anyway, most folks think these planes are just relics from the past, but they have no idea what these wooden wonders are capable of, not to mention the spiritual boost the give to their owners when they hear that magical swoo-oosh when they slice off that gossamer ribbon of wood. Once you design and build one that works, you become addicted. Wood on wood is what it's all about.Off topic a bit, but one of the posters to this thread has offered to create 1/4-inch irons longer than Ron Hock's. I am chatting with him about making a few about 4-1/2 inches in length for me. I have always wanted to experiment with a 40-degree bed angle and the Hock's are too short for this. If you are interested, here is his website.http://www.breseplane.comThanks for dropping in.
Phillip
Hi Phillip,
Thanks for looking at my handplane. Not sure what kind of race car it is, the good folks at Fine Woodworking came up with that description, but after looking at it from that perspective, I agreed that it did look like a race car.
I learned how to make and use a wooden handplane first, before really learning to use a metal one, thats why I am partial to them. I suppose if it had been reversed, I would lean towards metal ones.
As you stated the sound and feel of wood on wood is really something to be experienced, especially when they work well.
The ones I use regularly are several years old and have held up extremely well, no wear in crucial areas. I did retune the sole of my jointer once, it took a few minutes, then I was back in business.
One of the things I really like about wooden planes is that for the cost of the iron and literally some scraps of wood and a couple of hours of work, you can have this really cool tool that can make shavings as good and consistant as anything else and in many cases better.
I was toying with the idea of taking different pieces (scraps) of woods, from this species and that species, not caring about trying to match colors or anything, basically coming up with the butt ugliest plane you can imagine visually, but working like a dream. If I do I will try to post it for critique.
I do not try to compare what I make to a Holtey or the planes that the other Phillip on this site make, when I see their planes, I drool. I do not view that as apples to apples. But I like what I make, because I made it and not to pat my self on the back, but they work beautifully.
Take care
Perry,Just a quick note here. I just received my copy of 'Making and Mastering Wood Planes' by David Finch. This planes look very similar to yours. Did you go to the College of the Redwoods? Man, if you did I'm not sure I want to hear about it. I swear, I'd sell the kids to go there. Just kidding, but I can only imagine what that would be like. James Krenov has cost me a fortune ever since I began reading about him and his work. That's another long story.I've chatted with David Welter over the years, but that's as far as its gone.Anyway, I can't wait to get into this book.Take care.
Phillip
Hi Phillip
I wish I could say that I did, but I havn't. I did learn how to make planes from someone who did attend the program, thus the resemblance.
I also have the book and there is some great stuff in there. I follow pretty much the same process in making one. The only thing that I know I do different, because I was taught that way, is that I do not use a plug cutter to cut the tenon for the cross pin.
I "whittle" the tenon round to fit the drilled hole, testing it in a piece of scrap until it just fits. I know it probably takes longer but it is very satisfying overall. I must say, it is nice to communicate with someone who loves these little wooden wonders as much as I do.
I was thinking about this thread last night as I was using my planes on a current proect, watching the shavings come off and thinking "this is so cool" this tool I made is doing this.
Take care.
Hello, Perry!Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Been tied up with getting ready for our Thanksgiving trip plus I accidently discovered that my jointer was leaving my edges with a slight concavity. Had to attend to that and found that I need a longer machined straight edge to get it done correctly this time. Life.Back to planes. Yes, it is good to chat with someone who has the same interests in these magical tools. As to the cross-pins, I have made many with 1/4-inch stainless steel tubing that I could get quite easily from the scrap heap at a refinery that I used to work at. I liked it because it was so slick which posed not obstacle to the shavings on their way out. However, I have made them out of wood just as your described. The apricot plane that I just finished had a cross-pin made of buginga. I think that the wider 'foot' presented by a wooden cross-pin - it it's not rounded from end-to-end, gives the wedge a larger area to grip, if that makes sense to you.As I mentioned to you earlier, I'm chatting with Ron Brese of http://www.breseplane.comto make me some custom irons for an experimental plane I want to try my hand at. This one will (I hope) have a skewed edge. We'll see how this goes. I also want to make a small rounded-bottom plane for fine tuning the bottom of concave bowls. This one will have to be shaped like a ball. I know, I'll probably have to put my head in a vise before I pull that one off. Grin. These things are a blastIf you like you can PM me and we can continue our discussions that way.Wishing you a great Thanksgiving,
Phillip
Hi Phillip,
Sorry for not replying sooner. I was off last week, read the message, but I typically only spend time on this forum when I am at work, imagine that.
Anyway, have you made or tried to make a low angle block plane? I believe I have seen them on this sight, or maybe it was your mentioning of trying to make one, thus the inquiry of getting a custom blade?
Aside from making a "beater" for the fun of it, making a very small block plane with a 1" iron is one I would like to make, that way I can retire my little metal one.
Any thoughts?
Take care.
Beautiful work..
Thanks for the 'atta boy'. I'll take one of those every time.Take care.
Great plane
Don't have one that long but the shorties that I have are almost worn out. Back in the early "Krenov Day" I just had to make a few of the laminated planes. They seemed so doable I couldn't resist the urge. Boy am I glad.
You said it: wood on wood is unique. Still love it.
all the best
Thanks for the comments.I have always considered James Krenov to be my spiritual mentor. I have never met him, but man, has he cost me a fortune. He's to blame for my really getting serious about wood working. I've always fooled with the craft because my Grandfather, who raised me, was a wood worker amongst other things.Anyway, it was Krenov's article in the October 1997 issue of FWW that got the ball rolling. In this article he describes the magic of making and using wooden planes. That's all it took for me to take the plunge. That was only 10 years ago. Seems longer than that to me. Shoot, I'm still a rookie.Seriously, it's been a great ride and Mr. Krenov has taught me not only about these wooden wonders, but so much more about this wonderful craft of ours. Time permitting, I'd like to see a few photos of your planes.Cheers
"Anyway, it was Krenov's article in the October 1997 issue of FWW that got the ball rolling."
Hey, you got off easy. I stumbled upon The Impractical Cabinetmaker way back in 1980.
-Steve
Wow! That is a serious financial loss. You must have gotten a government subsidy along the way just to keep beans on the table. You don't happen to be Mr. D. B. Cooper do you? But I'll bet you didn't have your pay check Directly Deposited to Tool Crib of the North (was swallowed up by Amazon) like I did?Phillip
"But I'll bet you didn't have your pay check Directly Deposited to Tool Crib of the North (was swallowed up by Amazon) like I did?"
Mike seems to all go to Lee Valley.
-Steve
Phillip,
First off, love the plane. Interesting that you inlay a different material in the mouth right from the start. You don't normally see that until the mouth needs tightened up. The lack of lateral adjustment is also very interesting. You obviously have much more confidence in your sharpening skills than I. It just seems that one could do a lot of tinkering trying to square up an iron when a simple tap left or right would do the trick. What sharpening method do you use?
I've been trying to catch up to this thread for several days but have been busy trying to finish a project before Thanksgiving. Your discussion with joker and Steve hit home with me because I too was first inspired by JK back in the early 80's - The Cabinetmaker's Notebook being my first encounter. I was never a fan of his style of furniture, but until then I never knew anybody thought about wood like that. Between him and FWW they opened my eyes to serious woodworking. Unfortunately it took me another twenty years before I decided to get serious about woodworking. Too busy raising the family and clawing my way up to middle-management, you know?
Anyway, I saw that you've been talking with Ron Brese so I thought I would show you what I did with one of his irons. I got this off of him earlier this year and I wasn't sure what kind of plane I wanted to build around it - so I built three!
It's a 1-3/4" iron and the planes are a 6" smoother (purpleheart), an 11"jack (ipe), and a 17" tryplane (maple) similar to the one you just built. They all work great, in fact I used them to size and finish that cherry panel they're sitting on. I built them back over the 4th of July weekend.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/chuckh_2007/hand%20planes/3planes1.jpg
Here is each of them loaded for bear.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/chuckh_2007/hand%20planes/3psmootherwiron.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/chuckh_2007/hand%20planes/3pjackside.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/chuckh_2007/hand%20planes/3ptrywiron.jpg
You won't be disappointed with Ron's irons. I think he has made me a fan of hollow grinding although I have yet to try it on any of my other planes.
BTW here is what I've been working on:
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/chuckh_2007/tea%20table/table-planes003.jpg
Best regards,
-Chuck
I certainly don't mean to hijack Philip's thread but I have to say that those are some sweet woodie's you've been making Chuck. The tea table is pretty awesome also. I haven't made a wooden bodied plane in quite a few years, but the planes that you and Philip have shown us are inspiring me to revisit this idea.Ron Bresehttp://www.breseplane.comIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Hi Ron, and happy Thanksgiving.
My planes don't have the bling that your's have, but they are functional never the less. I believe if your going to build a plane it is important to start with a good blade, then if it doesn't work you can eliminate right away one part as being the problem. As I said I built them over a long July weekend but my camera had gone off to college so it wasn't until recent that I could take some pictures. I thought I would try building a Krenov-style cabinet for them; that would be pretty kool.
I hope Phillip and the others haven't bailed on his thread. I'm jumping in here kind of late, but I'd like to see some of their other planes.
You should take a break from the wedding plans and build a woody; It's good therapy. I'm thinking something out of walnut finished in garnet shellac ;-)
Regards,
-Chuck
Edited 11/26/2007 12:09 am ET by chuckh
Hi Chuckh,
Just wanted to comment on how much I like your planes, very sweet. I noticed that the irons are different than the type sold by Hock, are they made for wooden bodied planes?
Whatever the case, very nice indeed.
Joker,
Being an elite member of the Gallery, I'm flattered by your comments on my planes.
The blade I used is one of Ron Brese's. It measures 1/4" thk x 1-3/4" wide. This one is shorter than those that Ron sells on his site. Because of the thickness a cap iron isn't necessary so Ron includes the brass button to prevent the blade from slipping through the mouth of the plane. That's hard on the blade edge and hard on your toes :-( If you keep it in mind when you design the plane, the button will catch on the cross pin. A nice feature.
BTW, your Gallery plane is a beaut; I don't think it looks at all like a race car and I'm a race fan. Although, my maple tryplane reminds me of an old DeSoto :-)
-Chuck
Hi Chuck,
It's not flattery, just calling it like I see it, really nice work and I bet they work great. I went to the website for your plane irons and I was able to get a better look at the irons.
They look interesting. I wouldn't mind trying one in the future. Like I mentioned to Phillip, it's nice to interact with others who enjoy this aspect of the craft/hobby so much.
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
Chuck,My apologies for the long delay in responding to your great post.Our family has been beset with bad news over the Thanksgiving holiday. My wife's mother has been diagnosed with cancer which has spread throughout her intestines and needless to say, this was devastating news to all of us especially my wife, who is her only daughter. We were planning a large family gathering for Christmas in New Mexico, but all of that is no longer possible. Our only concern now is that this wonderful woman be made as comfortable as possible. She currently resides in a great retirement village (John Knox, Lee's Summit, MO) where she thankfully has a great medical staff taking good care of her.I will respond to your post and all the others that I have missed, but this will have to wait until after the holidays. Wishing All Of You A Wonderful Holiday Season,
Phillip
Phillip,
Now it is my turn to apologize for not responding sooner to your heart-wrenching post. Certainly my prayers are with you, your mother-in-law, and your family. I can understand your pain having lost both in-laws and my father in recent years. All three were special people in my life.
I hope it is a merry Christmas for you.
God bless,
-Chuck
Chuck,Thank you so much for your kind words and understanding.We are all beyond words in light of what has happened to us, especially my wife. I have always believed that everything happens for a good reason which is, for the most part, unbeknownst to us at the time. Regardless, knowing that a loved ones life is slowly being drained from her is very difficult to understand, much less accept knowing that there is absolutely nothing anyone can do for her. My own mother died in my arms, so I understand the utter helplessness that overcomes a person during these moments.I will get back to you as soon as I am able. We are again leaving for Missouri in a few days to spend the Christmas holidays with Fern. We can only hope for the best, but we are as prepared as we can be for the worst.Wishing you and yours (and anyone else who reads this) a Wonderful Christmas,
Phillip
Phillip,
My own mother died in my arms, so I understand the utter helplessness that overcomes a person during these moments.
I went thru the same thing nearly 3 years ago so I understand how you feel. My heart goes out to you and your family.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,Thank you so much for your kind words. It is times like these that we all question the deeper meaning of life. Hopefully, we will recognize and grasp the lesson that is being taught and leave a wiser person with a bit more wisdom and understanding of the wonderful life that we all too often take for granted.Wishing you and yours a wonderful Christmas,
Phillip
Hopefully, some of you who use these wooden wonders can jump in and we can compare notes.
Hi Phillip
That is a very sweet plane. Someone wrote that the idea of adding an insert to the mouth is unusual, but I think that this is sensible if it is intended to maintain/protect the mouth. Terry Gordon (HNT Gordon) does it, and I do it.
Here is the mouth of a Jarrah 30" jointer I built.
#1 is adding the brass to the mouth beforehand ...
View Image
#2 is the final mouth ...
View Image
And a few other shots ..
... the lever cap and blade (Hock - I infilled the blade slot to use it as a single iron). Along with my HNT Gordon planes, this has a 60 degree bed.
View Image
Here is the next-to-final picture of the 30" razee jointer - before I went and cut off the tote and built it afresh!
View Image
The original tote position was chosen for balance. But, after a month of use, I realized that it was too far back for control. So I cut it off and located another one further forward. This now works beautifully.
View Image
For such a long plane and built with a hard wood, this is quite light and easy to use.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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