Replies

1. 
   esch5995 | Jan 17, 2022 07:35pm | #1

   You are talking about a major undertaking. When you say 45 windows do you mean actual windows or sashes? A double hung window has two sashes, picture windows and casement windows have one. Are they all square or do you have arches and or eyebrows or some other type of architectural windows?

   Do you have a good router table? Planer and jointer? Do you have a lot of free time? Do you get frustrated easily? Anyway I look at this I think I would pass. The process as I see it would entail some very tricky matching of router bits in a manner they really aren't intended for if you wanted to cope the mullions at the intersections and joints. If you opted to vee notch them instead it would not only be time consuming but tricky as well and one bad cut could ruin many hours of work.

   Then assuming you figured out how to make the cuts en mass efficiently you are still faced with an end glue joint with a very small surface area. A recent somewhat convincing test video showing endgrain joints are not as taboo as we have been led to believe, I still feel the small surface area will leave any joint weak so epoxy may be called for and all the inconvenience that comes with it.

   Finally if you inserts are like mine they have tiny spring loaded pins that would need to be precisely placed in the new frames, assuming you can buy or remove and reuse them. I just see many things that could go wrong or best case consume an inordinate amount of time.

   Of course you could go the route of modern replacement windows and simply forego the profiling and do simple half laps simplifying the task immensely and eliminate the end grain glue joints. From the outside they would look the same and from 10 feet away most people won't know the difference inside either.

2. 
   Badger1805 | Jan 17, 2022 08:50pm | #2

   Thanks for your comments. These are all casement windows, so 46 frames in all - 44 rectangular and two half circle. The mullions in the 20 year old ones we have are joined with simple half laps and the ends of the mullions are simply stapled into the outside frame. Rather than pins, they friction fit into the outside frame with spring steel clips that are inserted between the window sash and the glass (like picture frame points).

   I do have the tools and such to make these with coped joints, and if I was making true mullion windows for a period piece of furniture like a bookcase or secretary, I would do that. In this case, however, I would probably just copy the simpler and apparently sufficient joinery of the ones we have.

   It's not a project I particularly want to take on, but every time I see the black stains, it bothers me. Unfortunately, I also have some amount of black stains on the window sashes and trim which I will have to deal with in some manner, but that will have to wait until spring when the weather is more cooperative (I'm in WI).

3. 
   rob_ss | Jan 18, 2022 01:51am | #3

   It might be worth a try of oxalic acid on the black stains before you go too far down the manufacturing road.
   I have just finished a pair of windows with mullions and with some care and a jig for the router table and one for the table saw, the work didn't take that long. I made it tough by creating a nonstandard profile which had to be hand-coped, but it went ok.
   46 windows though. 46.

   I would look at how long it would take me to earn the cash if I worked extra hours, but then I'm lucky enough to enjoy my job...

4. 
   john_c2 | Jan 18, 2022 04:44am | #4

   I'd try dipping some ends in oxalic acid, leave it a little while, and wait. See if it removes the discoloring.

   If that didn't work for me, I might try making a new one, and see how it goes. But my guess is you'll find out why they cost so much to replace. I wish I had a better answer for you. Maybe try curtains?

5. 
   john_c2 | Jan 18, 2022 04:46am | #5

   Oh. If the blackened area is fairly short, get some artists oil paints, and try painting just the ends to match the rest of the muntin.

6. 
   pantalones868 | Jan 18, 2022 05:21am | #6

   I've made all my windows for my house, some are full light and some are divided. You can purchase a cope and stick router bit set. The milling and set up time makes a whole lot more sense for 46 windows than for one! The only problem with making 10000 of the same part is staying awake ! You have the grills to copy,you don't even need to figure it out and the money you save will just about cover the cost of that little vintage Alfa Romeo I saw the other day!

1. 
   esch5995 | Jan 18, 2022 06:58am | #7

   I don't think there is a cope & stick set made for 3/8" stock most need thicker stock than that.

7. 
   Badger1805 | Jan 18, 2022 10:07am | #8

   Thanks for the suggestions, but I haven't been able to get the black stains out with either oxalic acid, bleach or even stripper. My next question is - if I'm going to go through the effort to make new ones, (1) what is the best wood to use to avoid this same condensation staining issue in a few years (the existing ones are pine), and (2) what is the best finish (color and topcoat) to avoid this same issue? I matched some Trans-Tint dye (on pine) to the window sashes themselves, but I don't know if dye would be very light-fast, diluted in either alcohol or water, and these are windows so they would get a lot of UV light. Would an oil-based stain be better? Do I need to go as far as spar varnish? I don't really care for the glossy look, but I assume that would provide the best protection.

1. 
   esch5995 | Jan 18, 2022 01:14pm | #9

   I definitely would not use dyes even water-based dyes will fade in that application. Oil based stains are the only way to go. I don't think the wood choice is going to matter and you probably want to keep it similar to the window itself so I would stick with either clear white pine or maybe birch or soft maple. I'm going to assume the black stains are from either mold or mildew both types of fungus that thrive in damp environments. I'm going to speculate that the windows don't have a real heavy coat of finish on them which made them more vulnerable to the condensation that often can appear on window in certain conditions. Your best preventative would be a good finish layer, more than one coat, and then diligent attention to conditions that create excessive condensation and trying to dry them when it appears, maybe consider a dehumidifier to help the problem as well.

   As a side note; have you tried any of the commercial mold and mildew treatments?