Replies

1. 
   UncleDunc | Nov 29, 2004 05:30am | #1

   I've never heard of anybody fuming a finished piece.

   I do know that water vapor will eventually diffuse through any finish, faster through some, slower through others, so there's no reason to suppose that ammonia vapor won't do the same thing.

   If it works, I would expect it to work faster through an oil finish than through any kind of film forming finish.

   Why don't you try it and let us know. :o)

1. 
   jersey_city_mike | Nov 30, 2004 12:23am | #3

   Thanks for the quick reply. I guess we'll just give it a try and I will be sure to post the results.

    

   mike

2. 
   AlbionWood | Nov 29, 2004 10:54pm | #2

   There was an article in FWW many years ago, reprinted in one of the Techniques books, about a French cabinetmaker's experience with fuming a completed (finished) installation! So, yes, apparently ammonia can penetrate an oil finish. Not sure if it would get through varnish, and it would probably ruin shellac.

   "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

1. 
   jersey_city_mike | Nov 30, 2004 12:24am | #4

   Thank you for the reply, I told UncleDunc i'd give it a go and post my findings. You wouldn't happen to know what issue of fww had the article?

    

   mike

1. 
   AlbionWood | Nov 30, 2004 06:01am | #6

   Dunno which ish of FWW - it's reprinted in Techniques 3, but they don't cite the original issue. Sometime before 1981."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

2. 
   RickL | Nov 30, 2004 01:10am | #5

   It sounds like the first book by George Franks, the master woodfinisher, not cabinetmaker. It was a bank interior and it was too light so he used ammonia fuming to darken the color. We have used fuming with an already applied oil finish with excellent results. We use the old blue print ammonia and also the  100 lb tank of anhydrous ammonia available from your local industrial gas suppliers (welding gasses, oxygen, nitrogen) to fume wood all the time, even whole timbers for timber frame construction.

1. 
   AlbionWood | Nov 30, 2004 06:08am | #7

   Yep, that's the one. "Fernan Banks on Ammonia," by George Frank, reprinted in FWW Techniques 3. Great story! Unfortunately he does not specify what the finish was.I've gotten good results using ordinary household ammonia from the grocery store, but then I haven't fumed huge timbers, only furniture pieces.I think the ammonia molecule is pretty small, so it can slip through the spaces between molecules in the finish. It also penetrates fairly deeply into the wood - almost 1/8" - so you can sand after fuming."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

1. 
   BenM | Nov 30, 2004 03:09pm | #9

   Issue 14 (Jan/Feb 1979).

1. 
   jersey_city_mike | Dec 01, 2004 02:47am | #10

   Thanks for the follow up. I put the pre-finished table in yesterday so we'll see what happens.

3. 
   yotonyb | Nov 30, 2004 08:03am | #8

   I'm currently fuming several small picture frames using household ammonia (10% "janitor strength").  I did finish one frame prior to fuming with a couple coats of Bartley's Gel Varnish and another with some Minwax Tung Oil specifically to determine what the effect would be if I fumed after applying an oil or varnish finish.  Those haven't hit the fuming chamber yet (a large Rubbermaid container!) but I'll share the results when they're done.

   Good luck and good skill!

   tony b.

1. 
   jersey_city_mike | Dec 05, 2004 04:41am | #11

   I  just took the coffee table that had been finished previously with pure tung oil out of the fumeing chamber. It came out significantly richer in hue. Previously it had a light orange to medium rust colored sheen from the tung oil finish. Now I would say it is definately in the brown family, more red than green in hue. It looks like it aged about 40 years after 4 days in the chamber. I am very satisfied with the results. If you work safely and take the necessary precautions,the only drawback to the process is the aroma of cat urine that the ammonia leaves lingering in the work space.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Dec 05, 2004 06:16am | #12

   Thanks for the feedback. That's a tip that might come in handy some day.