Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 01, 2003 11:02am | #1

   From what I've read and seen, I believe the completed pieces were put in the fuming chambers -- not "finished" pieces in the sense of shellaced ... you know what I mean.

   I've done a little bit of experimenting with household ammonia.  Definitely not the way to go for an authentic look.  Seems like people usually recommend a blue-print shop for commercial strength ammonia.  Probably could get it from chemical supply houses too.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   forestgirl | Jul 01, 2003 11:05am | #2

   PS:  This looks like a pretty good first-hand description:
   http://www.codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/oakfuming.htm

   You could take a look at the rest of my Google results too:
   http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=fumed+oak+ammonia

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   tzach | Jul 01, 2003 10:04pm | #4

   Thanks for the replies FG.  I was going to try houshold ammonia but a guy where I buy some of my lumber had done this and it didnt have the look I am hoping for.  The link you posted was helpful looks pretty staight forward.  I will be wearing a  mask and goggles for this even though it said a mask wasnt totally needed.  When I find the ammonia I'll post some pics.

3. 
   Froed | Jul 01, 2003 02:14pm | #3

   FWW #126 has an article on fuming in it.  You can get the higher concentration ammonia at a blueprint or business supply shop.  They may or may not be receptive to selling it to just anybody that walks into the door, since it is a hazardous material.  A few words of caution:  You will need a respirator that fits properly (no leaks), and has an organic vapor filter cartridge.  Also, goggles that fit tightly and do not have ventilation.  Swim goggles are suggested in the above article.  Those goggles from chem lab with the vents in the side won't cut it.  Wear a heavy long-sleeved shirt and good rubber gloves.  Lastly, do this outside or in a garage with an open door, unless your shop has great ventilation.  This stuff is nasty, treat it accordingly.

   Glass pie pans work well for fuming, since you can get a lot of surface area with a little ammonia.  For a fuming chamber, I used 2x2s with clear plastic stapled to them, then sealed it all around with duct tape.  Make it just big enough, since you don't want a lot of extra volume.  I put a hinged panel on it, and used duct tape for "weatherstripping".  It worked pretty well, and I could walk around it without catching a whiff of escaping fumes.

   The color does penetrate the wood, so you can sand it or plane it after fuming if you need to.  I don't know how long you'd need to fume to go completely through.  If you do it longer than about 4-8 hours, plan to replace the ammonia.

   If you'd like, I have some pictures I could send you, and the above article in Word format.

   Froed

4. 
   migraine | Jul 01, 2003 11:44pm | #5

   Was told my a finisher friend who worked for Disneyland that vinegar and steelwool soaked in a sealer jar creates a liquid that makes oak have that blacked fumed look.

1. 
   DaveHeinlein | Jul 02, 2003 12:53am | #6

   Rubbing wet steel on the oak will certainly turn it black(kinda blue, actually), but I can't see using risky vapors like amonia, when modern dyes will have the same appearance.

1. 
   migraine | Jul 02, 2003 03:05am | #7

   No, No, No,...  put the steel wool into a jar of vinegar, wait a few weeks to a month, remove the steel wool and then use the liquid to darken the wood.  Steel wool never touches the wood.

1. 
   DaveHeinlein | Jul 02, 2003 05:03am | #10

   It still turns the Oak black. This concoction is used for ebonizing woods with higher levels of tannin, if I remember correctly. Fuming with amonia imparts a different tone, ranging from dark bown to greenish gray, in my experiences.

2. 
   forestgirl | Jul 02, 2003 03:11am | #8

   Any kind of oxidized iron will react on oak.  Rusty nails even.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

3. 
   Telemike | Jul 02, 2003 07:55am | #11

   I've tried the vinegar/steel wool technique to ebonize oak.  It darkened most of the wood very well, but left the very hard wood that makes up the lining of the pores pores light and it did not look good at all.

   I've had very good luck ebonizing walnut with the vinegar/steel wool approach (iron acetate which reacts with the wood's tanins).  I use it all the time to get jet black wood.  when you rinse the wood and it drys, you'll have a heart attack at the ugly gray mess.  It turns to jet black when you put on finish!

5. 
   rickles13 | Jul 02, 2003 03:27am | #9

   Iv'e fumed oak before and the concept is easy. You can purchase the correct type of ammonia at blueprint companys, it's the type of ammonia they put in blueprint machines, household ammonia will not work.

   This type of ammonia is EXTREMELY potent to breath, and will choke you if not handle properly.

   You have to build a somewhat airtight tent, place your sanded unfinished pieces in the tent and place a small bowl of ammonia in the tent and close in up, wait 24 hours and depending on the wood you used all the pieces will be fumed the same color, probley not if the wood camae from different logs.

   I never found the fumed finish to look like the picture of original Arts and Crafts warm rich finish, sometimes even Stickley would add color dyes to even out the fumed color.

   When I make Arts and Crafts Furniture and try to acheive that warm reddish-brown finish that shows off the ray-flect beautifly, I use Jeff Jewitts recipe (see FW web page) followed by orange shellac and black wax, perfect.

   Hope this helps

   R13

6. 
   rslatm | Jul 03, 2003 03:16am | #12

   The spent ammonia from blue print machines will work fine and you can probably get it for free. Check copy shops and any business that makes blueprints. We use a fish tank bubbler to increase the ammonia flow. We've done entire trusses. The color goes deeper in the wood than any dye can penetrate. As little as half an hour can produce results. There was a brief mention in a George Frank book how he darkened an entire bank interior using ammonia fumes. Corrosive to steel but gives copper a green patina. Actually household ammonia is just a weaker dilution of the blue print ammonia. Just fume it longer. The blue print ammonia is 29% wheras household is around 10%.

   
   

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   Edited 7/3/2003 9:38:47 AM ET by Rick at Arch. Timber and Millwork

   
   

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   Edited 7/3/2003 5:15:46 PM ET by Rick at Arch. Timber and Millwork