I have a bunch of furniture designs floating around in my head. I really don’t want to take the time to learn CAD, but I would like to see a picture of what my designs would look like before buying the wood. I saw a program called Instant Woodworking Design on a website. Anybody know its any good, or if there are other reasonably priced alternatives?
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Replies
Mark
Have you tried drawing the designs first? The design process is normally iterative, starting with a design idea and refining it. I do use CAD for some things, but normally not until I have worked out a lot of the details by sketching and sometimes by building mock-ups to test the structural ideas. I find that CAD is time consuming and imposes too rigid a set of constraints on how I design. BTW, I use AutoCAD AutoSketch when I do go to CAD
Just a few thoughts
Scrit
Mark-
I have good news and bad news for you. But first a qualifier- I've been using software for about 10 years now of which "CAD", in a sense, is a small subset there of.
CAD in and of itself is a tool. If you want to use a computer to design and get a "picture" of those things floating around in your head you will need to learn CAD in some form. That I guess is the bad news.
The good news is that pencil and paper remain excellent tools. As does balsa or cardboard models. Pencil and paper remains a tool- and a skill- not far different from CAD. But if you are already working wood you might be surprised to find how easy it is to make a scale model.
All three systems are, in and of themselves, perfect. But to really see what they truly are look at CAD... "Computer Aided Design". Tools to help you design. And without design there is nothing.
So my best advice is pick how you really want to design- and spend the time to learn that tool- because it will always serve you well. I personally learned the pencil first. Then the model (four years of model after model!) and lastly CAD. I actually prefer models- but given the amount of time I have for woodworking I find CAD to be the fastest design tool I have. Sadly after all my rambling I can't help you out with a good CAD program. I use a program that I wouldn't recommend... easy to learn and cheap it is not. But on advice of others check out QuickCAD 8 ($50) or AutoSketch 8 ($80)... most pros use them on the side because they are small, cheap, and easy to use.
Good luck finding your tool of design!
"I use a program that I wouldn't recommend... easy to learn and cheap it is not"
Just curious what that program is?cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
"easy to learn and cheap it is not"- wow, I almost sound like Yoda.
Anyway the program I currently use (at work which makes is kinda cheap for me!) is Maya Unlimited. It was called Alias when I first started working with it... Anyway here is a link:
http://www.alias.com/eng/products-services/maya/maya_unlimited/index.shtml
When they still published booksets for it the manuals (it's all HTML now) and you added all the pages for the books up it was well over 1500 pages- uh, maybe more... that was just the part I used!
I'll second the Pencil suggestion, and add "Get a pad of graph paper to draw on." Then do your best to sketch your ideas in scale, and accurately porportioned. I use a pad of velum graph paper, which is translucent enough to trace through. I start in the back of the pad, and can easily trace drawings on the previous page, making minor refinements where necessary. And start small. Fill an 8.5 x 11 page with 12 or sixteen slight variations of your design. After you've filled a few pages like that, go back and find the nicest one or two, then refine THOSE another dozen times or so. This process often leads me to even more interesting ideas than I started with.
4DThinker
Mr. 4D Thinker-
I swear you sound just like a teacher I had- or well most of them. Ever worked in large scale stainless steel abstraction? I still have nightmares from the phrase, "I want 4 pages of thumbnails in an HOUR!"
But, "This process often leads me to even more interesting ideas than I started with." Yup. You're sure right.
OK, I am a teacher.
"Ever worked in large scale stainless steel abstraction? Ever worked in large scale stainless steel abstraction?"
No. I leave that to the folks in the art department. Some of my students, lately, have been experimenting with high-pressure water cut steel and aluminum for their furniture projects. In most cases the metal is overkill structurally, and almost always requires more work to finish than wood does.
Back to the software question... My students have access to AutoCAD, 3D Max, Rhino, Sketch-UP, and a few other programs. Very few develop the talent to ideate using any of these. They use them mainly to document and render presentation images of their ideas once the idea has been worked out via the sketching strategy I described above.
4DThinker.
Hahaha- I knew it. Yeah I'm with you on the metal work- I always though that finishing metal was one of the least enjoyable tasks I ever had to do. Though water cut must be nice. We had to cut everything with plasma. Oh, and if you've ever had to finish a casting! Gack!
As for the software... I always wonder what school would have been like if I had access to the programs that I use today. It is good they don't use them much... at work we have been seeing to many students get out of school and the computer became a crutch instead of a tool. So if you don't teach art...?
I'll chime in on the side of good old pencil and paper. I usually start free hand to be sure that I know that I'm in the ball park and then use graph paper to scale to ensure proper proportions. Working drawings for me are full sized on 1/8" masonite if complex (especially angled or curved)joinery is involved. I've tried using CAD but it always seems quicker by hand and forces me to think out joinery details. The easy straight forward stuff I don't need more than a sketch for and the complex I would rather work out full size. But that's just the way I work, more by feel and intuition. I know several people that need to work within the confines of a "plan" (my wife), and that is the best way for them.
Mark -
I really have to grin when I see someone ask about "design" software. I've been an AutoCAD user for close to 20 years. I've used other Computer Aided Drafting tools as well. None of them provide any ensight into design. Not even the high end mechanical 'design' packages like Autodesk's Inventor. They provide a vehicle for documenting and expressing your designs. They don't design anything. Otherwise I'd be out of a job! (grin)
All that said, log on to Cadopia.com and see if they're still offering a free download of IntelliCAD. It's an AutoCAD knock-off and really quite powerful CAD-wise. The downloadable demo, the last time I checked some time ago, runs for like 1,000 times then you either have to purchase the product or .... download another copy I guess.
Perhaps the most free-form, design oriented software I've ever used has been Rhinoceros, or as it's commonly refered to as "Rhino". It's a 3D NURBS modeling program that's pretty easy to use, but not cheap at about $US1000.00. There are lots of inexpensive drafting programs available, probably many floating around on the web for downloading. But when all is said and done, doing the pencil sketch thing and building scale model mock-ups out of cardboard and balsa wood will get you further, quicker than trying to rely on a computer to fill in the gaps. Even with my experience with CAD, which I do professionaly for a living, I'm finding I get more use out of a story pole and pencil sketches for the kitchen cabinets I'm building for our house.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis,
I saw your comment the other day about "design vs. drafting" software. I certainly agree that drafting software doesn't "do" design - I do. I'm looking for a tool to help me visualize ideas. I never took drafting, and I believe I'm geometrically challenged. I find AutoCAD LT very difficult to use.
What I really want is something that lets me play with 3D visualizations. Draw the side view of the side panel of a bookcase. Then say it's 3/4" thick. Now, "stand it up". Copy it for the other side. Add 3" boards along the back (each 3/4" thick). Now I can "see" the bookcase, and it makes me ask myself:
- Are all those back boards the same width, or are the two on the end wider to fit in rabbets on the side pieces?
- Should I add width to the side pieces for that rabbet, or lose the shelf depth?
- How should I fit the middle backpieces to the frame?
Unfortunately, it's a wireframe drawing, and the program doesn't recognize it as a solid (i.e., the lines don't go away when I HIDE) - so all those lines make the drawing immediately cluttered. And, I'd like to play with several notions. Maybe tounge and groove the back boards. Should be easy, right? But if I take a top view and try to "chamfer" the edges, no go. Same thing with pretty much any edge treatment or "cut" I try to apply (except those wholly in the xy plane). I want to work any edge or area to apply cuts - but not so easy for a non-draftsman.
I want the drawing tool to let me do the kind of things I would do in the real world. And I need to do it in "simulation" on the computer, since I can't afford to try out notions in wood. In simulation, I should be able to adjust specific dimensions to accomodate each feature I add - and maintain overall proportion.
Having these capabilities would let me use a drafting program as a design tool. But the ones I've looked at do not make such features easily accessible.
Are you aware of an easy program that let's me do these kinds of things? Or is the problem me (i.e., I need to spend the time to learn drafting concepts)?
Jim
I went to TurboCAD because it had 3D rendering, and the price was reasonable ($100, not $1000 range). The demos are great. But drawing even a simple cabinet in full 3D is so tedious that I haven't made good use of it yet. (Hint: Keep two views open at the same time, like a front and side view, as you draw each 3D component on the 2D screen.)
As a result, I still use pencil and paper for most of my work (my drafting classes 45 years ago helped). Still, a pencil sketch isn't as nice in a proposal, or to help someone confirm how you visualize their request.
eCabinetSystems.com looks awesome, but the (free) software is only available to commercial shops (who will hopefully buy some of the material through the cooperative that provides the software)________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Charlie, have you tried to sign up for the eCabinet disc? I did last year, and they sent me one, no problem. I had a business name to enter into the box, don't remember what else they asked.
Problem is, I've not figured out how to make it work for simple things like bookcases and, say, a sideboard or something like that. Maybe I just wasn't persistent enough.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie -
I managed to obtain a copy of the eCabinet software through my collaboration with my caninet maker neighbor. Frankly I find it rather limited. The biggest dissadvantage is that if you need to change certain parts of the design, such as the layout of doors & drawers, you have to start all over trashing the work thus far completed. While it's quite fast and easy with respect to creating a finished cabinet layout, it offers little lattitude for error correction or editing of the model.
I signed up for email notification from the Cabinets Plus software site after seeing a promotion here in Knots discussion. It was supposed to be available first of Jan but the latest email I got from them said it probably wouldn't be available until Feb. Has anyone else been following the development of this software? Personally for all that it promises to deliver at the price being quoted, it sounds like vapor-ware to me. Would hope this is not the case, though.
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Ecabinets is due to release V3.0 any day now and I think that it will be the sink or swim verison for them. V2.5 was/is a good program for “free” and or a hope or promise to buy some supplies from them. The program does have some limitations, but works rather well once you get to know how to work it.
Verison 3 is herald as a complete redesign and a lot of the “complaints” are “fixed” in this version. You know what they say though that the “proof of the pudding is in the eating. . .”View Image
Here's a kitchen I'm working on that I designed with the help of the Ecabinets software.View Image
Here's one more in the early stages of the design.View Image
Well, how easy would it be to design something like this in ecabinets, and how do I get that program anyhow? Cabinetsplus is hounding me to try reir product, but I can't seem to download it.
Dennis,
I use the ecabinets software for my bidding/layout. It is different from CAD, and if you learn the program, you can change the individual parts. It took me about 3 months of 'tinkering with it', designs and redesigns, but it is a fairly proficient program for building casework. I've impressed some customers with the sims, most do not care, they prefer dimensioned sketches. I am experimenting on the accuracy of the cut list right now on a library I am building. I used the cut list once before on a base cabinet without any problems. If the cut list is right, it'll save me a lot of time. If its wrong, I'll have about $900 worth of scrap. If it is wrong, its because there was something that I didn't catch in the design.
Like I said in my previous post, its all in the amount of time & effort you invest in the programs. I've used Autocad in previous A&E ventures, and find it a little overkill for single piece and short runs, unless you have to exchange files with designers, architects, PM's, GC's, etc, let alone getting the wrong file printed out for the guys in the shop to work on and finding out it was built from a draft version upon installation of the job.
Edited 1/29/2004 11:11:22 AM ET by craig
I just downloaded the SKETCH UP 3.1 VERSION...
It is user freindly and sells for about 450 dollars.
Try it for free ......You can get free version on the net or send for a disk..
View Image
I downloaded the sketchup trial and made a nice drawing in just a couple of hours. I will most likley buy the full version. I have used many cad programs, but find sketchup to be the easiest to quickly express my ideas.
this was my first drawing:
Gabe, that was way cool. Thanks for posting, as I was hoping someone would. How does it handle dimensions?
I am an AutoCAD user, but don't do much 3D, mainly shop drawings. But this is almost useless for clients. Sketchup seems the ticket. I just have to somehow get over the pricetag first...
dimensions are easy and also 3d.
I am serious...this is the easiest 3d solids program I have ever used. You should really check out the tutorial videos on the Sketchup website. It will teach you everything you will need to know to create a quick drawing like mine...or better!
$500 is alot but in the realm of 3d programs it is actually one of the cheapest there is. I consider it a great deal.
Another aspect of Sketchup that you should like is it's compatability. Drawings can be easily exported to Autocad, 3Dmax, Photoshop, etc. There is even a plug-in download availible from Sketchup that will interact with Autodesk ADT's mass element dialog (if you are into that).
heres a drawing showing some dimensions.
gk
Wow, now I am sold from just looking at your examples. You're absolutely right about the relativity of the price. I am right at the point of plunking some major cash for a tool upgrade...
I will download and try it out. Thanks.
good luck....have fun.
also, check out the forum on the Sketchup website to see what is possible.
gk
Craig and all,
Regarding autocad, which I absolutely know nothing about, as I still do my designs by hand.....but was just speaking with Lonnie Bird and his class on AutoCad in April has many spaces left. Two day course in Morristown, Tenn. at a local communty college. If interested go to http://www.lonniebird.com/2004%20AutoCAD%20for%20Woodworkers.htm
I may go myself!
Bill
The eCabinet site said they would check the business name, normally by looking in the yellow pages (I haven't retired to woodworking yet, so don't have a listing). Expecting a learning curve, I figured I would build a case to get the software when I was ready to invest the time to learn it, and maybe buy enough hinges though them to keep them happy.
The real surprise was how I found them. I got a call from Turbo Cad trying to get me to upgrade to their bigger package. I told them I hadn't yet decided whether I had wasted my $100 or had just found the greatest thing since sliced bread (but I didn't yet have a 3D picture from a plan). They liked the comment so much that they chatted about various packages and raved about how good eCabinet was. Which is how I found eCabinet. ________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
While working in a R&D engineering group we used AutoCAD for a long time then we changed to Solidedge/Soliddesign, I really liked the program you worked with a solid piece cutting areas or inserting holes. It was almost like working with a piece of wood, you create each piece save it, then assemble the parts.
John
Up until Christmas, I had been using an old version of TurboCad which was 2D only, and was reasonably happy with it. I could not use it for three or four months and within a few minutes be productive again because it was pretty intuitive to use. I bought the later version because I also wanted to do 3D visualization. Even though I am an engineer and grew up around computers and software, I really struggled with the 3D version. It wasn't intuitive, and the Help really sucks. I have gotten through it, though, and can get things done pretty quickly, and for the price it is certainly a bargain. My biggest complaint in for the standard version that I have is that you can't (or at least I don't know how to) change the color on different elements in the drawing, i.e. everything is rendered in the same color). Knowing what I know now, I would definitely encourage anyone not already using TurboCad to look elsewhere.
You do not necessarily have to be a commercial shop to get the ecabinet software. I do small work from a home shop. I went to the website filled in the form and received the software a few weeks later.
It does make certain steps very easy although it has a few quirks, just like all software.
what you are looking for is a program that works on a GDL platform the bestone is archicad. this program is very impressive you can create 3d objects save that object (a raised panel for instance) and then you can insert it into any pproject and re enter the dimensions to any size. This program was the first program to be design around the architect. since furniture design is sort of like architecture in miniture this program works wonderfully (here is an example of what you can do)
this took aboout 30 min includes all interior partitions and drawer carcases
you are also able get a list of all pieces in the project with the push of a button this includes sizes
truly an amazing product
you do however pay for what you get
Very interesting. It certainly does seem to be all about the "objects" concept I was trying to describe.
Probably too much money for me, but we'll see.
Thanks,
j
I use 2 computer programs for designing and estimating, but I still end up doing a shop sketch for the final piece. I mainly use the CAD's for material lists and overall perspective to help get the bid in the right neighborhood. I can't say that I trust the computer 100%, eventhough I come from a technology background and now build high end cabinets & millwork for a living now. I'm not saying that it isn't correct, it is just the level of my comfort with the programs and what I put into learning the programs. My feeling is why put in 8 hours of layout in CAD for a 4 hour project? I will put in 2-3 hours of design/layout to make sure that I do not seriously underbid a project for materials.
After the design is approved, and sketches approved, I lay out a full scale layout on story sticks which speeds up everything else with few, if any, mistakes.
Craig -
This is a riot!
With all the experience I have using AutoCAD, I launched into my first cabinet making project - our new kitchen. The first frame and box I made were made from prints off the 3D "design" drawings. It was a mess.
My neighbor just happens to be a professional cabinet maker. He introduced me to the wonders of story poles/sticks.
I took my design drawings into the kitchen along with a few long strips of wood I ripped out in the shop. Proceeded to lay out everything on these strips. With notations for sink cutout, oven cutout, plumbing rough-ins, electrical, .... you name it.
Back in the shop, the rest of the base cabinets and frames went without a hitch. Well, - one hitch when I marked a partition dado from the layout of a vertical frame member (pilot error!).
The point being, - the CAD drawing was great for figuring out the basics of the design, not to mention to help the wife visualize what the space would look like, but when it came down to race time, the full scale story poles were the real answer............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Jim -
I'm probably not the right person to whom to address your question - reason being, I 'grew up' with AutoCAD. While I have used some other so-called design/drafting programs, I still feel more comfortable using AutoCAD than anything else. It's just the familiarity thing, really.
Your question brings to light the two different approaches to the design, if you will, of design aid software: object driven or dimension driven. AutoCAD is object driven. Meaning you create the object then add dimensions. As you change the object (manually) you can, with certain restrictions, change the dimensions. With dimension driven applications, when you change the dimensions, you change the object.
The only truely dimension driven program I've used is Autodesk's Inventor. It's a 'parametric' design application geared towards mechanical engineering. It's expensive, to say the least. It allows the user to make various objects in the model 'associative' meaning that if you change one object, the others change in relation to it. I've not used any kind of architectural program that will do this, but that's not to say they don't exist. Some of the offerings mentioned in response to this thread might prove to be the answer to your quest.
The reason I stick with AutoCAD is that it allows me to build things (I do structural concrete detailing for a living), to build things the way I'd do it in real life. That is, I take a piece of material, concrete, wood or steel or .... whatever, and shape it to my purpose. I use 3D solids modeling almost exclusively which produces a .... well ... solid model of my project. I have to build my models 'by hand' and then dimension them. If I have to change something, I do it manually but I do have quite a few add-on tools that allow easy editing of the solids objects.
AutoCAD isn't for the casual user. Of that, I'm sure you will agree. The technology of solids modeling is becoming more accessable, however, and no doubt some of the other offerings suggested here would serve you better.
Sorry I can't offer more appropriate information of guidance. The only reason I entered this discussion was in response to what I considered a misguided mind set that associates software with design - design with software. Working with various professionally prepared (architetural) building documentation prepared with created with so-called design software has convinced me that software has done little to improve the level of design being produced in today's design community.
As we used to say before CAD became so prevalent, "CAD won't make you a better (insert design profession of choice); but it will help produce more bad design faster". (hehehe)
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
so true seems people forgot that paper, pencils, and drafting tables ever existed
My favorite parametric CAD program is Pro/E. It is completely associative--if you change the thickness of a tenon, the program automatically changes the width of the corresponding mortise. Want to see what different radii look like on a set of arch top cabinet doors? Change the radius on the top of the panel and the frame pieces all automatically adjust to match. No need to recreate parts to explore design options. It can even warn you if a dimensional change to one part causes another part to exceed any constraints you might have set.
The full commercial version of Pro/E costs as much as a new car. The beauty is, they have a deal where if you tell them you want the software for personal, not-for-profit use, you can get the whole thing for next to nothing ($150 sticks in my head).
There is a learning curve, but in terms of being able to fluidly model and modify a design in order to perfect it, I can't think of anything better.
Hi Bart -
Yeah, I've got a few Pro-E using friends that rave about its capabilities. Personally I've got a copy of AutoDesk's Inventor that's their attempt to take the Mechanical Design profession by storm. Ther is, of course, a lot of difference of opinion about that! (grin). I think the cost of such software is way out of proportion to the benifit it would offer to the slightly more than casual furniture designer, but that's just my opinion, of course. I've never really gotten proficient with Inventor but do like the dimension driven aspect of the program. The ability to mate surfaces and axes and the like between parts and, like you say, get automatic updates of the entire model is a real boon with respect to the design process. The best thing about this discussion, from my point of view, is that it's awakened my interest in Inventor. I have a bit more time now and think I'll see what all I can accomplish with it.
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I'm playing with Inventor.....for the pro, I really think programs like that are the future, but they're still evolving. One of my students is using Solidworks at home, and he's doing good things with Inventor here. I'm stretched time wise (and as to the number of software programs I teach.....I've got four main ones now, and we touch on some others), so I've organised a one day workshop from our reseller, to get a jumpstart.....he's also going to be bringing me some samples from a friend of his that is using Inventor for furniture.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to it.....the more I see, the more I like.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Adrian -
I have to agree - at last after all the promises that have been waved in front of our noses, software is finally becoming a viable tool to the designer. I never understood/don't understand why the mechanical design discipline and their software, eg ProE, SolidWorks, Solid Edge and even Inventor are so far ahead of the rest of the design professions.
I've looked at Autodesk's Architectural Desktop thinking it would be an aid to the kind of work I do. Unfortunately there are many restrictions to how you can define a "wall" that even doing basic concrete detailing is faster with vanilla AutoCAD and solids modeling (for me that is). Now to be honest it's been at least two years since I looked at ADT so perhaps Autodesk has enhanced it to the point where it would do the kind of things would need. But at this point I'm too old and too set in my ways to bother (grin).
This is, to say the least, a very exciting time in the development of design software. If I were 30 years younger, I might be more interested. But I maintain,regardless of the features, enhancements, stability, ease of use and all the other positive attributes of such tools, they are, still, just tools. I have a very well appointed woodworking shop. That doesn't make me a good woodworker - I just have the tools with which to become one. The tools don't create the design - I have to bring the design to the tools and learn to use them to bring to fruition the vision that exists only in my imagination.
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Jim:
Your last statement is exactly correct. Any of these "wonder" programs are just tools. If you have the best tools in the world, but don't have a clue as to how or why they work, what earthly use can they be?
My advice to you would be get an older book (try the library) on basic mechanical drafting and look up orthographic projection (big words for three view drawings).
Then go back to your pencils, erasers and lots of paper. When you start to accomplish what you want to on paper, then move to the time savers like AutoCad etc. I see people every day that can run extremely complex and expensive $15000-20000 programs that can't design their way out of a wet paper bag and wonder why they can't make the big bucks! Sorry, no instant on, magic pill, etc.....Len
Look at http://www.sketchup.com they have one of the best 3D software package for what you are looking for. I have a copy and have done some work with it the package but it does take time to learn.
Bill
Wow! That's a very impressive tool! Now to look at my rapidly dwindling tool budget and figure out if I can squeeze $475 out of it for Sketchup...
Suggest that you try the demo version of Sketchup before making a commitment. I found it easy to do rough drawings, but had a terrible time entering details. Finally gave up and went elsewhere, since I wanted to get to more details...________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
This discussion has mentioned a lot of software. Simple to very complex, free to extravagantly expensive. I've attached a list with product names, websites, prices (where known) and comments.
The only consensus seems to be paper and pencil. I do use that, but I'd like more. However, apparently no silver bullet is available.
Jim
You need to change the price you have listed for Pro/E. If you go to http://www.journeyed.com you can get the complete package, including much more than just the design software, for $150. The only catch is that you can't use it for profit, it has to be strictly personal or educational. Talk about the steal of a century.
Not affiliated, just a fan.
Bart
I chose to show "Full Price" for all the packages I could, since I am not aware of all special sources or conditions by which one can acquire particular packages at reduced prices. This seemed to be the most consistent information I could capture.
I did note that very many of these packages have special prices available (under varying circumstances), and many do offer a free trial period.
Jim
Jim
very tongue-in-cheek here there is a silver bullet, it's called AudoCAD ! Lots and Lots of atrocious designs are done with it every day. The analogy I always think of is a CAD program is to drawing and drafting what a word processor is to writing. If you can't string 10 words together to make a coherent sentance M$Word isn't going to make you a writer.
FWIW my suggestion is also to use pencil and paper. taking some classes in drawing may be the best investment you can make. The trick is to visualise your ideas. Check with a drawing/drafting supplier, you should be able to get graph paper marked in 1/4 in squares, isometric paper (rectangular and diagonal lines), when your starting out these special papers help a lot.
My own experience is heavily grounded in pencil and paper, 30 years ago when I started enginnering, the first class all engineering students took was in technical drawing. Not only did we learn to draw plans, elevations and sections, dimension objects and convert complex shapes into flat sheets (think the tapered section of an air conditioning duct) we also learnt how to sketch freehand. (A very hand skill, manys the time I've used the hood of the [employer's] car as a large sheet of paper when discussing what was required with a foreman.) My current computer drawing tool of choice is Corel Draw. It's not really a CAD program, but I can work to scale when moving components arround visualising and sizing a construction. HOWEVER, when I build it is always to the dimensions I've added to the drawing, not those generated by the program.
If you are mainly trying to visualise case pieces, get some 3 ply, heavy card or foam core board and cut it to scale — say 1 in = 1 ft. Use the scale pieces to 3D your design. This is often the best way to decide if something "looks" right.
Ian
Thanks for the input.
My local junior college has two classes on drafting (technical & architectural). Maybe after those I can take the Computer Aided Drafting classes as well. I'm sure that most of the problem is just me.
I do have Autocad LT, but don't really know what I'm doing with it. Most things get done, but its always a struggle. I rough out the basic proportions in LT, then figure out the details (e.g., edge treatments) in the real world on "cheap" wood. When I'm pretty sure I like it, I work with the good wood. A slow and labor-intensive process, but I'm doing it for relaxation.
Just can't stand to make a wrong move on figured wood I spent months finding and paid a fortune to acquire.
Thanks again,
Jim
Re: paper/pencil, I agree everyone should start that way....my students do: we learn drafting with paper/pencil, then when they can do that that, we move to the computer. We sketch constantly, but I rarely see them come back to do any drafting by hand. Good to know how to do though.
I took that Inventor workshop I mentioned; it is a pretty amazing program.....I was told all the solid modellers are pretty similar (Solidworks, Solidedge, even up to CATIA).....for manufacturing, which is what I teach, programs like these will become the standard, I'm positive. Being able to drive a parametric program with spreadsheets is huge....you can do some of that with Autocad, but not this easy. For $12K Cdn., it better be good. Three new versions of it last year alone; this is where the R&D money is going.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
I use DeltaCad. Very easy to learn, about $40.00. I use it to do drawings of everything I build. I just used it to do the drawings for a Chippendale slant-lid desk with a pretty complicated gallery. I probably saved days versus drawing by hand.
http://www.deltacad.com
Stephen J. Gaal
I use Paint ( A windows program) most people have it on their computers! i can usually draw most things with it!.. I at least can follow it after I draw it!
If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh
Dave,
Thanks.
They say the new verison should be out any day now, at least that’s what they said on their site. You might as well just wait the week or so and get the new one. No reason to play with the old when you’d need to start all over with the new one ;-)
Yeah I know they say that, but...... you never know when any day is. I'd like to get started now. If its too much trouble, no problem.
Dave
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