Hi I have a finishing question. I have a veneered table top that has been ebonized with steel wool, coated with Sutherland Wells tung oil hard sealer and the Murdochs floor finish which is tung oil with some added urethane. The finish looks decent, but Im having a hard time avoiding dust from the shop environment and so was planning to sand it slightly and apply a buffed furniture wax. I was also hoping to cover some slight color variation from the ebonizing (its a very diluted look). And finally I really like the look of buffed wax finish. I called Briwax to ask about compatibility and the customer service rep said that it wouldnt be compatible with my finish. She said as it was a shellac base (??) it wouldnt adhere. Does anyone have experience with a roughly similar finishing list (oil urethane, wax)? Or maybe theres a different wax maker that has a different formulation? Im looking for a dark mahogany, dark brown, or black furniture wax. I am aware that it will make refinishing difficult, but I dont think it will be an issue given what this tables purpose is. Thanks so much
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Replies
I like buffed wax. Thing is, you have to buff it well so you get lustre. I don't like it on anything that has nooks and crannies as it's very difficult to avoid a mess.
Generally my experience has been poor outcomes on anything except turned projects where there is plenty of heat and friction. I'm sure it would look good on a tabletop, but there is no going back - try a test piece first - the effort will be worth it.
So, is "buffed wax" not the same as other waxes, like beeswax, paste wax, etc.?
What buffed wax do you personally like and reccomend for turning and large surfaces, as you mentioned?
I just got a Rockler mini lathe and would like to get a buffed wax if it works better with the heat/friction.
The wax is the same if used to polish or to buff (burnish) it to good effect on furniture (or anything else). The difference is in the method of application.
To polish is to use the wax to apply a very thin coat on top of something, such that the wax will amplify or clarify the details of what's underneath it. It adds gleam and optical clarity. You just rub on and rub off the excess of wax.
To buff is to polish with much more application-force, which can give not just gleam and clarity but also suppress or remove imperfections (nibs from dust in the finish coat, for example) in the underlying finish. The increased force used to apply and rub-in the wax produces not just a greater smoothing result than just polishing but also heats the wax and perhaps even the underlying finish, to give a very smooth and deep-looking "lens" into the wood surfaces.
Buffing is usually more successful when a machine is used, as it can apply more energy to the process than can a human's rub-rub-rub. But it is possible to achieve some buffing effect by hand.
I'm just discovering the effects of a wax polissoir, which is an implement for putting on and buffing (burnishing) wax with a lot of pressure and energy, producing a high gloss and extremely smooth result.
https://woodworkersinstitute.com/techniques/2022/04/historical-furniture-finishes-the-wax-polissoir/
(Have a look at the latter part of the above article). I can manage the effort & time on a small object like a carved spoon.
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Some timbers respond very well to buffing or burnishing - those with a very fine grain and no obvious-to-the-eye open pores. Cherry (especially old-growth cherry) is one good example.
With some cherry things I've made, I sanded first to around 400 grit then applied several coats of finish using a piece of 600 grit wet & dry paper wrapped around a hardwood block. This makes a little fine oily-"dust" of cherry that combine to fill even the microscopic pores of cherry-grain. It also heats up everything a little and keeps the finish coats very thin and even.
Five coats gets a very good gleam. A final application of neutral beeswax rubbed very vigorously on top of the fully-dried oil coats using the same semi-clogged wet & dry 600 grit paper wrapped around that block will give a very glossy finish indeed.
It takes a lot of time and effort, this! Like French polishing but different. :-)
Lataxe
Wow, that sounds intense...
Thanks for the clarification on buffing vs polishing.
I may try this on some scraps to see. I generally like a matte look.
However, this sounds like a perfect technique for some bowls, or something turned on the lathe like you mentioned. Hehe, so much fun to come.
Thanks for that link. What an interesting read.
I just use beeswax - either a prepared beeswax finish, or some from our bees if there is any spare.
Have a watch of Richard Raffan on Youtube. He's a true master turner and wood artist - he generally applies a little BLO then beeswax after and applies it as a friction polish.
The key with a friction polish is not using too much and buffing it at speed so you get a little heat.
What speed do you reccomend? as fast as possible i assume? My little lathe tops out at 3800rpm
Wax sticks to everything. Nothing sticks to wax.
If what you have on there now, wax will stick. I'm not a fan of Briwax. I love Renaissance wax.
Apply your wax. If you aren't happy with the result, wax is super easy to remove.
How do you remove wax?
Turpentine or mineral spirit
Out of frustration, I threw the Briewax away several years ago. Picked up a can of Varathane's finishing wax to finish the project and have been very pleased with that product ever since.
About 15 years ago, FWW did a nice comparison of a lot of waxes. The general conclusion was that they all worked well. I've wax on shellac finishes and on oil finishes and on oil (linseed) which then followed by shellac. All waxed just fine but I'm just a hobby woodworker and not overly critical on this.
It makes sense that you're looking for a wax that works with the finishing you've applied. Because of its shellac foundation, briqueax might not be the best choice, but there are alternatives to consider. Seek out waxes designed especially to be applied over finishes with oil content. Consider brands like Howard or Minwax for appropriate substitutes in the desired hues. To make sure compatibility and the intended outcomes, it's advisable to test a small, discrete region first. I hope your refinishing effort turns out well!
I don't think Briwax has any shellac in it - according to the can it is a blend of beeswax, carnauba wax, and solvent - and the MSDS (available @ Rockler) lists the solvent as toluene @ 60-90% by weight. But if you're worried about it and/or can't find what you are looking for - and can live with your table's color variations - "The Original Bee's Wax" is a beeswax-based aerosol polish that imparts a nice sheen and will keep the dust down. Used it all the time at a furniture store - great stuff.
An aerosol beeswax is intriguing.
Does it get buffed after it's sprayed on?
I'll have to order a can of that to see how it is.
Be wary of spray polishes that have no list of the ingredients used. Many have silicon in them. The solvent and propellant used can also involve unpleasant chemicals, as can any addition to give "a nice lemon smell".
For the amount of beeswax in there (assuming there's any at all) it's an expensive way to buy it.
But I may be over-cynical. Can the poster recommending the stuff point at a complete list of the ingredients used?
Lataxe
You're not over cynical.
No doubt you're dead on the money.
“[Deleted]”
It's just a furniture polish - not a finish. Works well at controlling dust (as was one of the issues). No clue on the solvents or propellants or proportions of beeswax to same - ingredients probably on their website if you want to chase them down. I generally make my own beeswax finish.
"The Original Bee's Wax" website has nothing about the contents of their product - nothing in the FAQ or anywhere else.
There is an Amazon customer question which reports that the company refuses to answer questions about the contents and got quite rude with him for asking. This suggests ...... ?
It certainly suggests someone looking for a high quality finish safe to use on a piece of nice furniture should be leery of such a mysterious product. Use at your own risk, perhaps ..... .
Lataxe
Hmm..I don't know. Colonel Sanders probably wouldn't like you asking about his 11 herbs & spices so it might be as simple as that - or maybe it really is death in can - but I did find the link for you:
https://www.shopbeeswax.com/pages/california-ingredient-listing
My experience? We used all the time on high-end pieces to keep them dust free & looking good - with nary a fault to the finish.
But yeah - if worried about it - try it on a piece you care less about before hosing something nice down with it :)
Thanks for that, Mr E - its always best to know exactly what one consumes, eh!?
For example, I don't care for tortured chicken full of weird growth hormones and antibiotics, encased in fried wood dust (looks like). Me, I'd have that Sanders up before the beak for a whole series of crimes agin' nature, chickens and fried junkfud eaters. :-)
I get it. As a chemist, I get real fussy about what I will and won't purchase. The more a safety data sheet is ambiguous about its contents, the more likely I am to not purchase it. Many woodworking finishes fail this test. Sometimes I will see things in ingredients and just pass on it altogether.