Hello,
I have been an online member of FW for well over a year as well as a print subscriber for the last two months (or so), and I have learned a lot from the videos and print that I have been receiving over that time period. During this long period, I have learned a lot about the process of woodworking. I heartily value this learning – I have been able to create pieces that have impacted my everyday life in the short term, and I expect them to do so for the long term as well. However, upon reviewing the most recent edition of my fairly new FW magazine subscription, I realized that there were no people of color on the FW staff. I am certain that there are people of color amidst the woodworking community, so I wonder why this is the case here at FW.
Cheers,
-Alex McEwen
-Sadly, this thread turned toxic, and I feel the need to close comments. I have deleted the offending posts. Normally this forum is ONLY for discussion about woodworking, but I felt the need to keep it open and available to everyone because we are always interested in criticism and input from our readers and members. Please feel free to email me directly ([email protected]).
-Ben Strano, FWW digital brand manager.
Replies
I may regret this, but I'm going to weigh in.
I have been a print subscriber forever, and an unlimited member for a few years and the question of color has never crossed my mind.
I value the content as you do, and I enjoy the community here on the forum greatly without ever having considered it before your post.
Recent events have us all considering the larger issues relating to race and respresentation here in the United States and how we have all acted, or not acted in our individual spheres. Our collective reflection is a great opportunity for our society and for each of us as individuals.
Considering you have been an online member for over a year without raising the question has me asking myself why I have never noticed what you have pointed out, whether there is an issue to be answered for, and what the implication of your question is.
Photos of the entire staff at FWW are all over the web version of the product at every turn of the digital page yet you raise this subject today. This noticing and the general heightening of awareness as our country continues to grow (hopefully) from recent experience is a positive development.
I have no idea what the backgrounds of the many fine folks I interact with here on the forum are, and I don't feel that knowledge would affect my experience.
FWW is regularly praised for its inclusive policy regarding women, (see the letters in the current issue) and the lack of staffer skin tone variety is not defacto evidence of discrimination as the question you raise would imply. Taunton produces large volumes of valuable content that I also enjoy. I do not know what the percentages of our community are by ancestral breakdown and I am certain it does not matter in this context, at least not to me.
There are precious few places to get away from the ugliness of the world, and when I need that break you will find me "hiding" in my shop.
Deep breath, long pause, submit comment.
MJ, I agree. Particularly: " the lack of staffer skin tone variety is not defacto evidence of discrimination as the question you raise would imply." Without evidence of discriminatory hiring practices, I think it is pointless to raise these issues in a forum like this. And, I doubt that most of us contributors have any such knowledge.
I recall a couple of FWW articles in which the author/woodworker was "a person of colour". They are few and far between - I can't find those articles just now with a quick search in the large sea of FWW articles and magazines I have.
It seems likely that the scarcity is due to conditions in the wider society rather than in any direct discrimination by FWW. Many everyday activities, roles and opportunities seem far more difficult for "a person of colour" to achieve in the USA (and elsewhere, of course).
Racism is a queer invention of The Victorians, based on cod-biology and the usual tribal parochialisms. Personally I think (after a lot of reading of various modern stuff on human biology and genetics) that the very concept of human races is nonsense - made-up stuff in service of colonialism, slavery and all those other olde world behaviours.
But this daft concept has an endemic presence in many of our nations and societies, where it has numerous effects on all sorts of cultural behaviours and institutions.
Anyroadup, I think we should bring back phrenology - determination of people's innate abilities and worth based on the bumps on their heads. (No I don't). :-)
Lataxe
Alex,
Thanks for asking the question, it is a reasonable question to ask. I found this:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2011/08/22/the-faces-of-finewoodworking-com
This is from 2011, but the pictures speak for themselves.
I think Fine Woodworking would be improved if the staff and contributors were more diverse. I subscribe to see new things I would not have thought of myself. Having talented contributors who don't look like me would be good in my view.
Bob
Yeah, I don't see any ethnic Albanians, either.
No ethnic Albanians? Are you sure? How would you recognise one?
Looking at the list of FWW contributors over the years - or rather, at their surnames - I suspect there are many who come from ethnic backgrounds of various kinds, one, two, three or N generations back. This is a good attribute of American society, I feel. It's a melting pot.
Some of the emergent alloys from the pot are not given the same value as others, perhaps. That seems a poor do. After all, equality (of opportunity at least) is part of the whole idea, isn't it? Quite right too.
Lataxe
I think you raise a good point. It seems some commenters have taking this as a suggestion that there is some hiring bias within FWW. I personally did not.
It is probably likely that less people of color are engaged in woodworking but it is also probably true of women as well. FWW has gone out of its way to include content from and increase exposure to female woodworkers. I think this is a good thing and we should try to model what we'd like to see.
While I don't believe that there is any inherent bias in the lack of people of color represented, FWW should make an effort to feature people of color. Depictions of people of color and women engaged and this fine pursuit will only serve to encourage others to follow their example and help grow the world of woodworking.
Wow, can't believe someone actually got me to make a comment on one of these pages. I try so hard to never do that!
But... being another "person of color" who has been following FWW for many years, I have to say it is something that has crossed my mind from time to time - "What, there are no black people who do woodworking other than me?" Honestly, I have never thought that FWW was purposely cutting certain people out, I just assumed there aren't many of us. But, a comment above is correct, FWW does make great efforts to make sure women are represented, and I would bet that even the percentage of women woodworkers is dwarfed by the number of "people of color" woodworkers.
So... I for one would like see a nice, self-reflective, response from FWW about this whole topic. Doesn't seem like too much to ask.
I’m a woman, dismayed to see this subject matter has drifted over from the bread and circuses of social media into a place of intelligent discourse. I rarely see women featured here...and I don’t care. We are all here because of a thing we have in common. Why introduce divisiveness? There’s enough controversy surrounding pocket holes, and pins first vs. tails first...can we please leave gender and race over on Twitter? I don’t want to hate coming here.
I hope people can find some degree of common ground here. I don't expect opinions of people participating in forums - but can't we agree that it would be admirable if FWW demonstrates how they're seeking out diversity in their contributors?
I mean at every point staff, contributing editors, featured pieces.
In many ways, they clearly already show diversity of thought and tastes, it's a reasonable step farther for the magazine to demonstrably seek out diversity of experiences too (I mean that to include race, borrowing Ta-Nehisi Coates's definition of race: how the dominant culture lables/treats you).
So do feature work using wood as a medium at some annual HBCU art show, by visiting that show annually. Reevaluate that when we call it a Monticello book stand, or Jefferson lap desk, it very well could have been built by a person of color (I use him as an example because we know a black man, enslaved on his estate, was a trained joiner). You honestly cannot feature work by Thomas Day enough - his stuff is amazing. (Roy Underhill has in many ways lead by example - we're all influenced by him in one way or another show us how you're following his in this respect).
I'm not throwing stones at FWW here, I'm extending an invitation: can you please show me how you consider inclusion of race and ethnicity when you seek out creators? Can you tell me if you think these steps are inclusive enough? If not, do you have plans to improve it further? Are you willing to get some feedback from your readers as to make progress on this area? Or willing to reach out to POC outside the customer base you already have?
But please, don't assume there are no POC at Taunton. I'm not going to do the "paper-bag test", deciding who's 'white.' The person above who posted this old "Faces of FWW" saying the article speaks for itself...Ed P., The very first person in that article talked about his Cuban heritage on the side of his family frequently when he worked here - I can't speak for him and say that makes him a POC, but I don't live in his skin so I sure as hell can't speaker for him and say he isn't a POC either.
Again, that's why it's important the magazine shows how it tries to be inclusive. One sure way woodworking is failing to be inclusive, is by letting the stereotype of it being a predominately white hobby continue. Part of the way more people from diverse experiences join the hobby is if they see enough diversity to believe they won't feel like "the only X person" in that guild/at the show, etc.
Going back to common ground: can't we all agree that more people joining this craft would be an awesome thing!?
You are obviously entitled to your opinion but I don't understand why you would click on, read through and then respond to tell us that this is a subject you are not interested in hearing about.
Um. Because humankind is better served attending to things we have in common, rather than things that divide us. And because this subject matter almost always deteriorates into personal attacks. Ahem.
Also: Hawaii_Scott, mahalo! I had a thought for you. Are you aware FWW is a reader-written publication? That could be your face you see on the cover. :-). https://www.finewoodworking.com/author-guidelines
I also read all of the comments like 1Heartwood has done and completely agree with her sentiments.I also become engrossed in my furniture making hobby be it in the shop or online to avoid all the,dare I say it,rubbish on the race/colour issues discussed on social media and generally so I also would rather it was kept out this of such an excellent WOODWORKING online magazine
Again, you are entitled to your opinion. If my statement seemed in attack, I apologize as it wasn't intended as such.
I think inclusiveness unites us and that, in this case, woodworking is what we have in common. No one is requiring you to engage in the subject.
The point I have tried to make is that an intentional effort at highlighting the variety of individuals who engage in this excellent endeavor helps to bring a wider variety of individuals to woodworking. That can help to give us one more thing in common and to unite us. I hope you can see that isn't intended as a divisive message.
Now I’m off to sharpen my smoothing plane blade. I sprang for the magnificent Lie-Nielsen bronze No. 4...and then used it to find a broken-off screw in my bench top. &$#@!!! Happy weekend all!
I also read all the comments here like previous posters (as well as the other threads) and I agree that this place does not have to be about race or gender. We are here to learn more about what we love...woodworking! It's a shame that so many discussions have to be steered toward color or gender. If you want to have that discussion I agree that we do not need to participate if we don't want to. I would think that a better thing for your time would to put together a proposal, build and video something that we would like to see in the magazine or here on-line and submit it. I am sure that in your text you could reference what race or gender you are and it would inspire others to do tha same. Rather than just lamenting about the lack of anything.
Strenuously Agree. Especially your point about inspiring rather than lamenting. When the 10-year-old neighbor girl sticks her head into my shop today — like she always does on Saturdays — I should show her about sharpening, and how a plane goes back together. Instead of telling her I’m busy.
As a "woodworker of color", and someone who views this publication as an invaluable resource, I am quite aware of the homogeneous make up of the community as a whole. My view is that woodworking as a pursuit, like others, requires some introduction to ny others. Admittedly, I was one of the few African Americans in my shop classes, so I don't feel that there was anything exclusionary about it. To me, the passion of discussing woodworking with like-minded people transcends race or ethnicity.
On the other hand, I also know for a fact that I lost several projects because the clients were leary of the workmanship of "a person of my persuasion. "
I guess in response to the query, I would just say let's introduce more people of color to this pursuit.
It's interesting to me that people don't seem to be able to separate discussion from divisiveness. Or, that just because someone speaks out about something that affects/may bother them, they get labelled as "lamenting" and not "inspiring". And even worse, that there are people that feel that these types of discussions don't fit into places of "intelligent discourse". What defines what intelligent people talk about and when?
In reading the messages above, I don't think anyone has attacked FWW or even implied that they are purposely excluding any group of people. But, to me, that's what a lot of this protest stuff is about... getting people to see that even though you may not be purposely excluding someone, that doesn't mean they still aren't being excluded. What would it hurt for the powers that be at FWW to say, "hey.. there must be an african american/asian/native american/hispanic/person with a disability/woman, etc., furniture maker/designer/interestingly skilled person out there, let's contact them and see if they would be willing to let us do a feature on them." Maybe for some people, there would be no plus or minus to them personally to see something like that. But, for many people, it would only be a positive and would enhance this community over all.
Anyway... just my opinions. Mull it over or not while you're making sawdust.
H_S
That's my own feeling - people need to be able to discuss uncomfortable things without feeling its a fight. Arguments can be very productive: a way to learn via opportunities to empathise. Empathy doesn't necessarily demand sympathy so no one need be forced to agree - just asked to understand.
What you propose is generally called "positive discrimination". A lot of folk will automatically bridle at this. But if you call it "equalising opportunities" (as it's often the same thing in practice) then many will accept that - at least within fields or domains where it doesn't imply huge power changes or a detraction from someone else's opportunity.
As another poster mentioned above, perhaps the best approach for anyone wishing to see more of something in the magazine is to make an effort to contribute that something. FWW core is articles by woodworkers of many ilks and tittles. One way to increase those ilks and tittles is to become one yourself. That might also be motivation and inspiration to do "the best thing I ever did". :-)
Lataxe
Mario Rodriguez has written for the magazine for years, and The Taunton Press has published his books, though I don't think that he is a staff member per se.
I don't have a doubt in my mind that FW would publish an accomplished woodworker of color as it has already done so in Mr. Rodriguez.
I'm 71 years old. I grew up in the deep south. But I have strong ties to the northeast. Whether you agree or not, I ASSURE you there are forms of discrimination and prejudice all over this country. A good friend in the northeast would ask why us southern boys hated people of color? I would answer that not all southern boys hated people of color. Without knowing, my friend stereo-typed all southern boys. Then I would ask him why he harbored such extreme hatred for ALL Muslims? He told me about an event that happened about a 1000 years ago. I regretfully believe that until ALL of us, woodworker or not, can admit to these frailties of humanity, recognize the need to change, and have meaningful, open dialogue we will continue to struggle.
I have never really noticed the people in the photos but I am a very compartmentalized thinker. I am too focused on looking at the joints, grain, and the project as a whole since this is a woodworking site.
As far as a lack of diversity, my guess is it is more a numbers reason than anything. There is a push for more women contributors and women make up half the population with limited contribution. Considering people of color (all non white people), make up less than 24% of the population in the US, and the number of folks who are woodworkers, subscribers, AND will contribute is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of that number, you could see where the numbers will become few and far between. Add in staffers and you are considering those who are woodworkers and likely have some media history, which is likely a smaller number still.
Just a guess. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
First post...
I come here once a day, for an hour sometimes more, to escape the realities of our world. This after spending most of my waking hours trying to make a difference in “my” tiny bubble.
How about those Veritas planes? I just obtained a #7...now have a bad back.
Thank you all for the frank, civil discussion here. FWW is apolitical. Our primary goals are to teach woodworking, inspire woodworkers, and connect woodworkers with one another. Our content is all about the craft of woodworking, and we accept all comers without regard to race, religion, or gender.
The same goes for our staff. We are an equal opportunity employer. As for our contributors, they are you. Most of our content comes from our readers and members. The inclusion of women contributors has been very organic. They took a chance and proposed content ideas that we loved.
We are a small staff; we can’t be everywhere. That means we often rely—again—on readers and members to give us a heads-up about great work that’s happening in their neighborhood, club, school, or online. If you have something great to share, let us know. If you know anyone doing great work, let us know. Send a note to [email protected]. As a community we can pull together and help spread enjoyment of this craft to everyone. If we do that, the diversity we all seek can happen. It’s all about connecting with one another. Be well.
Tom, thank you for your post. It was a well-thought-out and reasoned response to the issue. The diversity of the magazine will naturally match your readers and contributors. Diversity in and of itself should not be the goal. Woodworking is the goal, and as you stated, most of the content comes from readers and members. This is how diversity will naturally come into the picture. As more POC take up the craft and have a desire to showcase their skills and projects, the magazine will reflect that.
"Racism" - a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities.
Racism also sees everything as a racial issue.
And I know a troll when I see one.
No one trolled in this thread. As the FWW Editor said, it's been a frank and civil discussion.
As a reader of FWW for many years and a participant in the FWW forum for just as many, I've always found the discussions here "frank but civil". There were many heated arguments in the days of Knots but it was very rare for any individual to become abusive or troll-like.
American woodworkers have always seemed to me a diverse and grounded lot. It's partly why I come here rather than go to a British woodworking website (I'm British).
Lataxe
I'm saddened, but not entirely surprised by some of the comments in response to a legitimate question. I am a scientist and professor at a public university and a common response to why we have so few Blacks, Hispanic, or other minority people on the faculty or in the field is "we welcome anybody, but 'they' didn't come knocking". I'm sorry, but that isn't sufficient any more (not that it ever was). Showing kids that woodworkers (and scientists) are Black *makes* a difference. It isn't tokenism or pandering - it is encouragement.
FWW has a platform - they can choose to use it to expand the diversity of our craft --- or not. But it is a choice. I am a recent woodworker teaching myself from Youtube and some books - and have yet to find any Black woodworkers. Perhaps FWW could actively search some out - or at the least go to the library and do a story on Thomas Day or Henry Boyd (apologies if you have done so already).
I live in a small town in rural Pennsylvania and going to a hardware store requires a thick skin (I'm a person of color) - nothing overt, not in this day and age, but a subtle exclusion and turning away. (I wonder what a Big Box home center or small hardware store has for their employees - in my area there are no Blacks or Hispanics, but it is rural...).
I'm old and successful and secure in myself, so I can go where I wish - but I know that a young Black person would be more likely to turn to woodworking as a craft or hobby if they could see themselves in the pages of your (beautiful) magazine.
Respectfully, I don't believe reflecting the world is good enough. I believe that as responsible citizens we have a duty to model the world that we want, not simply to reflect it as it is. Solely as a business matter it's probably a good idea for FWW to recognize that, although much of their audience is older, younger America is more diverse and even younger whites tend to embrace and expect diversity. FWW would be well served to help build their future subscribers by sharing images and the work of diverse craftspeople.
My conclusion is that a wide array of disadvantages brought about by systemic racism have given what seems to amount to a “very late start” for people in many countries, if they don’t look Caucasian.
Many of the disparities can be explained by the huge disadvantages, and I suspect that the lack of freedom, lack of access to and money for tools, lack of those willing to teach them, lack of learn-on-the-job opportunities, as well as the untimely death of many who had developed artisanal proficiency and a long list of additional items make this a mathematical inevitability that requires a lot more years than have passed so far to balance out, if that’s even possible.
In my mind it is a bit like Caucasian people getting a massive head start in a very long race, then having earlier and better access to water and nutrients during that race. I am Caucasian and have seen far more second and third chances even when I was totally at fault or in the wrong while minorities in the same workplace were getting written up for smaller issues. It has happened too many times for me to think a coincidence.
Personally, the entire staff and all guest artisans could look like the Blue Man Group if they put out good content and I’d be okay with it. But I’m not even confident there are more minority woodworkers than woman woodworkers, as there are and were a lot of woodworking dads out there willing to show their daughters use of their tools and who may have even handed them down during the last several decades. There just seem to be a lot more Caucasian dad was taught by grandpa was taught by great-grandpa and now we’re already back to generations when racism was much worse.
I think _SA_ hit something that is important, and apologies if other have said something along these lines too. It is not enough to say (I'm paraphrasing) 'I am open to diversity, but there simply are not people of color showing up'.
The broad call to action I'm hearing is ANTI-RACISM. "I'm not racist" is not enough. If your hope is that you can just escape this subject through woodworking or some other hobby, try to understand that people of color cannot simply escape it, or runaway from it. There are many resources all over the place to learn what anti-racism means/looks like and what you can do. Listen, learn, and teach others.
For those interested, here is an article touching on some black furniture makers from history (https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-02-27-1994058112-story.html)
I've read this thread beginning to end. I find myself disagreeing with @1HeartWood and agreeing with @samwat1. And I appreciate the woodworker who created the first response to Alex, and his understandable trepidation.
Like many who've commented on this thread, I've been relying on woodworking to be my "safe space" for some time. FWW is a sizeable home in this safe space of mine, .
One of the rooms in that house is of course this community forum. For me, there is ample space in that room for the present thread, because it's part of my community. In fact, I'm proud and impressed that my community is talking this through, because I believe that's what decent folks should do.
And don't do enough, in my opinion. I'd like to believe that George Floyd's horrifying death and its aftermath of peaceful demonstrations (not the hideous actions of those who agitate by violence, criminal looting, and blustering threats to our Constitutional rights) has brought us all to this place. May we make good use of this discussion.
Samwat1 and any others who are minorities, would you please get with the FWW team and submit a collaborative effort showing some of your work with a backstory on how you got into woodworking?
It would be an interesting read and a published article to distribute to get others interested at an early age.
Sadly we have reached the point in our public discourse where concepts like identity politics, systemic racism, etc have served more to divide than problem solve. Virtue signaling, group blaming and casting around terms like "white privilege" have morphed into their own form of racism.
Let's just enjoy our craft, be kind to each other and practice the golden rule. Leave social justice warfare to the many other forums that are available for that purpose.
Greg M.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled