I saw mention of this machine in a thread a few days ago. I’m wondering if anyone has purchased and used it. I’m looking for a machine like this to make mortises easier. I’m currently using a drill press with a forstner bit and cleaning up with a bench chisel. It seems like a good fit at a good price.
Would appreciate any feedback on the quality and effectiveness of this machine. Does the hold-down work effectively? What kind of bit would be used for cutting mortises?
Thanks for any feedback!
Replies
Might have been my posting. The machine is fairly new and wasn't expected to be available before April so don't think many have been sold. The sales folks at Grizzly did a lousy job of promoting it by calling it a single spindle boring machine. The specs mention a six inch horizontal travel on the table and that to me says slot mortiser. Been using similar machines for 20 years now. I use HSS endmills and have used router bits as well . Commercial slot mortisers run 3,600 rpm. Some slower and some as fast as 9,000 rpm. If I didn't have one already I'd gladly pay the $330 to get one in and try it. You can always return it. That price is the lowest of any thing else available. Next up would be the Laguna/Robland ...the mortiser from the combo machines. After that would be the Rojek for around $1,500. Everything else is quite a bit more except for the converted handmill mortiser.
Apologize for being slow, but I'm still a newbie.
Why would anyone prefer a slot mortising machine, over a hollow chisel machine, where you have the mortise square corners and ready to go, nothing extra?
After doing a number of joints on chairs, the biggest job was cutting the tenons on a table saw.
If I had to do a whole lot of these again, the easiest and most precise method appears to be a Leigh FMT jig. If I had only a couple to do, I'll be back on my table saw with the cast iron jig and my hollow chisel mortiser.
What am I missing here?
Willie
I've used all types of mortisers from chisel, chainsawand maka and the slot mortiser is tops in my experience. Making mortises in all pieces and using loose tenons is so much faster, easier and expremely accurate. We keep tennon stock ready planed to go so it's no big deal to prep stock. For many applications it's not even necessary to round the tenons. Plus I can use the slot mortiser like a doweling machine. Been using the slot mortiser for 20 years and it's a piece of cake for production jobs as well as one off jobs. Try and do an eleven foot rail on a Leigh FMT jig! You have to try it to like it I guess. As soon as I heard about the concept I was sold. Probably the most unknown and under rated tool available to woodworkers. And here Grizzly makes one that actually works for $330 delivered and folks aren't standing in line to get one. What am I missing here?
Woodworkers are a tough sell. Spent a year raving about it to a couple of buddies now that's all they use. Go figure. The slot mortiser has been big in Europe since the fifties. Look how long it took for the bisquit jointer to get accepted. That goes back to the fifties in Europe.
Here's another selling point on it...
http://woodcentral.com/shots/shot52.shtml
Edited 6/22/2004 3:01 pm ET by rick3ddd
Phew.... I finally got it and understand. Thanks.
I agree, this seems rather productive.
A few more questions though....
If I join 4/4 into 8/4, I can cut a nice wide tenon 1/2" onto the 4/4. If I cut a mortise in both with the slot mortiser, I would probably have to go with 3/8" and a weaker joint?
I guess for compound angles, you make up a jig or two and off you go with cutting the angles into the mortise.?
About the biscuit joiner, never owned one. I use a joint bit in a shaper, it takes care of the alignment and I get more glue surface.
Willie
"If I join 4/4 into 8/4, I can cut a nice wide tenon 1/2" onto the 4/4. If I cut a mortise in both with the slot mortiser, I would probably have to go with 3/8" and a weaker joint?"
You could still make a tenon on the mating piece using your saw. Weaker would depend on what it is and how big the piece is.
Angles are really easy on a slot mortiser and loose tenons. Some commercial slot mortisers have compound angle tables plus you can do louvers.
I see no reason to use biscuits for panels as it doesn't add any strength. A good glue joint will not break on the glue joint. I often use curved cauls for perfect alignment so no need to thickness plane after gluing. It makes more sense to prep the stock correctly before glueing rather than trying to correct after glueing a panel.
Thanks, this was good information.
Can you give me specifications for the HSS end mills you use and where you buy them?
Willie
I find the 2 flute aluminum cutting ones work just fine.
You can find them at many places like http://www.use-enco.com
MSC, http://www.mcmaster.com and more.
Glad I was able to open up new options.
I guess I'll speak up. I am a new owner of a G0540. I own mostly old American made machinery and love it!! but, the few pieces of European equipment I own, show how advanced they are over the US manfacturers. If you still use a hollow chisel mortiser after trying a slot mortiser than ???? The Grizzly G0540, for the money, its a good deal. It's china made, so don't expect a great fit and finish ( but you cant expect that from Delta/Powermatic now either) I have used Robland, Inca etc... If you have the funds get a European made machine, but for the hobbyist/ small shop the grizzly should do you alright. Slot Mortising!! Try it, you'll like it.
Jim
Edited 6/23/2004 8:56 pm ET by Jim
I have the Griggio, from about 1980 or so, and with Rick's help and counsel, and after having to replace a "metric" 2 hp motor (for $500, ouch!!!), I am in love. Bought it as part of an estate that I bought, and sold most of the other tools, but did save that guy. What a pleasure, except for the overpriced metric motor. Thanks, Rick, for the guidance. I had wanted one of these since 1980 or so when I saw Alphonse Mattia use one at a weekend seminar. I am still exploring with it, but it is quick and accurate, even if you elect not to go with loose tenons.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Jim, please keep us informed as you use that machine - I'd like to know how well it performs over time. I contacted Grizzly to ask them about using it as a slot mortiser, and they wrote back:
We do not recommend using the G0540 as a slotting machine. There is no tolerances to use the machine in that manner.
Not entirely sure what that means, exactly, but I suspect the machine is not designed to handle the lateral stress imposed by moving the workpiece sideways while the bit is engaged. OTOH, even if it develops a wobble, the resulting mortises will probably still be cleaner than those from a BT chisel mortiser...
So, go cut a thousand mortises, and report back to us, willya? :-D"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
I guess now we know why they named it a boring machine instead of a slot mortiser. That's too bad, I was leaning toward getting one. Gonna think twice now.
I talked to a couple of the techs down there and they couldn't see why it wouldn't work. The only thing one of them brought up was he didn't know if the bearings on the motor were designed for lateral stress. For $330 I could afford to put better bearings in. Besides the way I use a slot mortiser is to go side to side while slowly plunging. It doesn't get as much lateral stress this way it seems. I think they have a hot item here with a lot of potential. The next one up would be the Laguna/Robland then the Rojek for $1,500. I've seen the Rojek and I'd be willing to put my money down on the G0540 if I didn't already have a slot mortiser
Edited 6/25/2004 1:08 pm ET by rick3ddd
The Grizzly G0540 is built exactly like a mortising machine, the standard horizontal boring machine is different in a number of details, take a look at Grizzly's other true boring machines to see the difference.
The powerhead appears to be a standard motor so the question about bearings is certainly worth asking and a second question would be the type of chuck and how it was mounted. If the chuck is mounted on a standard Jacobs taper it shouldn't be used for work that has a high side load. As usual the Grizzly catalog is very vague about the details of the machine.
John W.
For $330 I'd expect some compromises.
The big issue with Jacob chucks is usually the morse taper that holds it on the spindle. The lateral force will knock it out of the spindle. I'm doubtful the brand of chuck is Jacobs but a friend built a slot mortiser using a Jacobs chuck 15 years ago and there is no sign of wear. It's a heavy duty one of course and the chuck is pinned on the shaft so it won't fall out. I know the commercial slot mortiser chucks are different.
If you look at some of the other slot mortisers they also have direct drive motors. The ones that use a pillow block say theirs are superior to the direct drive onnes because of the superior resistance the bearings have to lateral failure.
For $330 one could still modify it a bit and still be ahead of the game. Whatever works is my philosophy. My main thing is the slot mortiser is one of the best secrets in wooworking. As far as a boring machine I'd be willing to bet this G0540 is better than the Newton Boring machine and if it does slot mortising so much the better.
The Paolini, Sicar, Hammer, SCMI, Griggio, Hohlzer, Bini, Knapp, Invicta start in the thousands. Many woodworkers do not even know what a slot mortiser is. Pretty simple machine and you'd think a manufacturer could make one for entry level users at an affordable price. Funny how Grizzly sort of did and I don't think they even realize the full potential of what they have.
http://www.lagunatools.com/mortisers.htm
I think you may be confusing a Jacob's taper with a Morse taper. Morse tapers, which are standardized in sizes designated #0 through #7, are 2 1/2 to almost 12 inches long and can resist side loading, they're used all the time in metal working machines.
Many drill chucks, whether or not they are actually made by Jacobs, are mounted on the end of the spindle or arbor with a Jacobs taper, the female socket of the Jacobs taper being machined into the back of the chuck.
Jacobs tapers, which are also standardized and given numbers #1 through #6 plus a #33, are, in all but the largest sizes, under an inch long because they extend only a short way into the back of the chuck. Jacobs tapers were never meant to handle much of a side load though they will take a lot of abuse. The most common problem when side loading a chuck mounted on a Jacobs taper is that the chuck will come loose from the taper, not that the chuck will wear out.
John W.
I was in a bit of a rush. Typically drill chucks have ####jacobs taper going into the chuck. We have pinned them to eliminate the problem of it falling off. My friend converted and old hand mill into a slot mortiser with a 3/4 Jacobs chuck on a jackshaft. No sign of it coming loose with a pin to secure it on. Didn't mean to say wearing out. Jacobs chucks are also available with threads as well. Talked to one guy who's using his G0540 as a mortiser with no problems so far.
I ordered the G0540 and have it in and running. Seems to be a fair machine for the money. There was a little problem getting the bottom bolts in that hold the table, but some grinding and all is in order. I made several test cuts. First was with a drill bit. Made good holes but was not good at slot mortising. So changed to a spiral up-cut router bit and this is the ticket. Did several mortises and then some tenons. Mortises are fine, very easy and fast. Tenons do just great also…but don’t back up. LOL After installing another router bit, I was back in action. I think this will be a big help in my shop. The frame and stand is very solid. Cast iron table and ¼ steel legs and supports. I did order the aluminum end cut bits. I think the HS will be better for this machine.
A drill bit could never be used for slot mortising, it has no cutting edges on the sides. Also, I've never heard of and aluminum cutting tool? Maybe those are end mills for aluminum, I have found those to great for hardwood mortising.
Based upon a comment here long ago, I ordered end mills from Bentz Tool, in CA. Great to deal with. No online presence. I got a 1/2" spiral solid carbide, with 4" of cutting depth. They have them up to 6" of cutting length. My gross in-out movement is a little under 4".
I have the Griggio (bought used) and it is great. I am still learning the tool, but am in love. It has a two jaw chuck similar to that pictured by Rick.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Thanks for the report! Not sure what you meant by "don't back up" in reference to cutting tenons. You mean you reversed direction and the climbing cut broke the bit? Those brittle solid-carbide bits always scare me, ever since I had one explode in a router (cause: trapped workpiece. An inexpensive lesson).
Can you give us some specs? How much travel is there with the table - in/out, and lateral? "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
Specs are on Grizzly's site...
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G0540
Must have missed that when I looked there before... thanks.
Next question: There must be some sort of fence to align the workpiece, but I don't see it on the photo. How does that work?"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G0540
That dark line in the photo at the front of the table might be it. All you need is a bit of a lip to reference things. Could easily be added or modified.
Yes there is a fence mounted at the front of the table. Not very thick...so it lets you keep 1/4" of material.
Jim
I'm curious as to why you are making tenons versus using loose tenons? The ease, simplicity and accuracy of the slot mortiser is based on the loose tenon. The strength of the loose tenon is plenty and even a less than perfect study published in FWW some years ago backs this up. For a lot of applications I don't even round off the tenon. You can allow some side play for adjustment. Got stuff out there for over 20 years without hearing of a failure yet.
Rick, that is a very good question. I have no answer for that. I would like to know something though. When you make a loose tenon, what material do you use? If making something out of cherry, would you use a oak tenon? Do you make up a load of tenons and have them ready for your work? That is why I ask about the oak. Or do you have several types of tenons ready?
Jim
I usually have several different common used types of wood ready. Even plywood works.
Tell me more about the others. You say the "next step up" would be the Laguna and then the Rojek; the Laguna lists for $3K and the Rojek for $1750. Laguna also lists a Griggio at $3500 and a Knapp for $4K. Any idea how they compare?
I'm still considering that Grizzly. Wish there was someplace I could see one in action. You could buy four of them and still be money ahead, if they will do the same job as the Rojek...
One thing holding me back is that I cut a lot of tapered mortises (wedge pockets). I am looking at that tilting-head General hollow-chisel mortiser, which might speed up those wedge pockets. OTOH, I suppose I could make a tapered piece for the slot mortiser to get the correct angle.
How deep can you go with the slot mortiser? I need to go about 3" deep sometimes (wedge pockets at the ends of bed rails)."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
The Laguna/Robland is the mortising table from the combo machines on a seperate stand. They don't list it on their site anymore but it's still available. It comes with a mortising chuck so you can set it up with a shaft on pillow blocks or a router. The basic mortising table was around $500 last time I heard a price. I pretty much know someone with almost all the machines I mentioned. We have an older Griggio in our shop and have used 3/4" 2 flute endmill and made 3" deep mortises.
There is a Jacobs taper 33JT which has a threaded locking collar on the chuck and can be used for side loads.
I would rather be mountain biking.
Jim...perhaps you could share a little more info on the G0540.
What's the chuck like and how is it fastened to the shaft?
How about the lever for the cross slide?
Any chance of a few pictures showing some details?
Thanks!
Edited 6/26/2004 1:28 pm ET by rick3ddd
Sorry guys, I've been busy. Looks like the chuck is pressed on as I see no set screw ( could be threaded on) It works as a mortiser with no problems yet. I have only tested it (have not even removed the cosmoline coating completely) My bitch so far is the tubes that the table slide in are a little loose for my taste. That said, I am located in Indianapolis and your welcome to come check it out. I will try and get some pics.
Jim
The Rojek seems to have a bit of slop in the slides as well but it doesn't seem to present any real problem if you are aware of it. I had a chance to fool around with it a little the other day and used it as a dowel machine for a couple of quick frames. If you look closely you can see a round bar with indexing holes for boring. It's an option. Pic is with the motor cover off. The chuck is a two jaw mortising chuck. The bit pictured is what Rojek recommends as a mortise bit. Pretty pricey and I find endmills are cheaper and work better. So for the money I think the G0540 looks like it has possibilities. $330 for the G0540 versus $1,500 for the Rojek!
The way I was looking at it was a hollow chisel mortiser is a very specialized machine. On the other hand a slot mortiser seems a little more versatile. I also think that the slot mortiser may be a bit quicker making joints than a chisel mortiser especially if you use loose tenons. Plus you don't have to worry about keeping the chisels sharp.
For the money the G0540 seemed like a better buy to me. Now I haven't used a hollow chisel or a slot mortiser so that is why I started this discussion.
Thanks for your input!!
Edited 6/22/2004 5:24 pm ET by Mbiker
Call Grizzly. I was curious myself so they gave me the name and address of a small shop that bought one. I looked up his number and got his opinion on it. Pretty much as I suspected. A little tweaking out of the box but for the money nothing comes close.
Is there a specific need for a slot or milling mortiser to be horizontal?
I was looking at some of the vertical units such as the Grizzly G9959 and it seemed to offer a lot of flexibility. The tilting head, speeds to 5000, lots of table movement - and the pictures cutting wood on a rotating table.
http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2004/438.cfm?
Could one of these other milling machines be an option?
How about using the Go540 but removing the stock motor and replacing it with a big, variable speed router?
I wonder if Grizzly would sell it without motor or come out with a new version meant for router mounting.
Why bother switching to a router? Buy the Laguna/Robland unit that typically comes mounte on the side of a combo machine if you want to go that route. Commercial mortisers run in the 3.450 rpm range and a bit of loctite will take care of the the issue of the jacobs taper press on chuck. BTW...the Laguna unit isn't listed on the website. You have to call for info but it's still available. The nice thing about the Grizzly 0540 is at that price the whole thing is cheaper than a router alone.
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