I am making a small box. The sides are big leaf maple burl. There are some voids in the burl that I would like to fill. They are not large. Does anyone have any experience with gap filling C. A. glue?
I have access to a brand called Special T which has three thicknesses: watery, gap filling and ultra gap filling. Does it dry clear or dark?
Does one put it on in layers, or just fill the void (which does not go all the way through the wood) at one time?
I may just leave the voids, depending on the feedback I get here.
Thanks,
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Replies
9619
You're lucky you're doing burl. You can fill the gaps with sawdust/glue and it won't show up. In fact if the sawdust came from the pieces you are making it will do an excellant job of camoflauge.. just make a paste of glue and sawdust and fill all the gaps you've got..
Monsieur Frenchy,
Merci beacoups. I have gotten three responses. All negative on the CA glue. I have a spare piece which I will use to try the method you recommended and also the mixing of sawdust with epoxy.
Thank you.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
9619,
I'm bad.. I should have said plain carpenters glue not CA glue..
I've had good luck doing it.. looks sorta ugly untill it dries and you sand everything level.. (sand, don't try to plane) then you find yourself looking for the spot. That's when you know you've done it right..
Frenchy,
D'accord.
Laissez les bon temps roullez.
Merci,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
The gap-filling cyanoacrylate glue dries somewhat milky, not perfectly clear. I think you can dye it.
You might want to consider epoxy (which you can also dye).
-Steve
I deal a lot with CA glue. I have it in 5 gallon jugs and we use it for defecting flooring and such. You cannot tint CA glue. It will change the properties. There is a black CA glue and even a rubberized version which is a bit more shock resistant than the regular CA glue. There are accellerators which sprayed on will cause the glue to harden instantly. Still the glue has to have tim to fully cure. Epoxy can be tinted
Steve,
You and Jeff both recommended epoxy. I will run a simple test using white glue and sawdust, epoxy and sawdust, and leaving the gaps alone, and seeing which effect I like best. I appreciate the advice.
Thanks,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel
Forget the CA glue. It will give you less than satisfactory results in both color and finish. You need some slow setting epoxy. T-88 from System 3 is the stuff I use. I use it all the time to fill in cracks in crotch slabs (which I use alot), and on occasion, for ferderbles (you know, mistakes............shhhhhh!). You can mix it up in any quantity you want, small or large, and you can add sawdust from the species you are working, or a dye tint, if you so desire. I haven't tried a stain, as I don't use it much, but you can mix a small amount and check that, too. Without a tint, it will dry clear enough to read a newspaper through.
Jeff
Jeff,
I will get some of that T-88 System 3 slow setting epoxy and give it a try with sawdust mixed in, on a piece of scrap. I'll also try regular white glue and sawdust, and I'll try leaving some of the voids empty, and see what looks best.
Thanks for the specifics on the epoxy.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel
Using yellow glue with fine sawdust is one method, using epoxy with sawdust is another method, and heres one more: epoxy with a powder color adjuster. There might be a smarter Knotter out there that knows the best coloring agent to mix with the epoxy, but I have found if you make the mixture darker than you think it should be it seems to work out just right.
Boy that's a bunch of help. Sorry. I have had better luck with the epoxy than the yellow glue. I'll be doing some crack repairs on this crotch figured walnut I am working so I'm right behind you on this adventure. Good Luck.
dan
Dan,
It is always a pleasure to hear from you.
Now I have three alternative approaches.
Yesterday I had none.
That is progress.
I will give them a try and see what happens.
These pieces of advice go into a book to be used in the future as well as tomorrow. I tend to forget those things I don't do often.
Thank you very much.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hey Mel, I don't think much of using saw-dust as an additive to any adhesive as a filler, because of the end results just looks like particle-board which never seems to look right when I see it used with a solid. I would much prefer to use the sanding dust from my belt-sander bag. However I find your description lacking in detail to give you a proper answer to your question. Are you trying to fill a check, or split, or a natural void like a bark pocket? For the first, I like to use the thin CA, and slowly fill the check, then either rub in some of the dust, or sand with a medium grit, letting the dust from the cut work it's way in. This really trashes the paper, so I usually use old used disk. If you are needing to fill large voids, this is where I will use epoxy, and mix enough dust to make a peanut-butter thickness filler, which I usually over-fill, then shave off the hump after it has cured.
Keith,
Your idea of using dust from a sander bag is excellent.
The voids that I am talking about are the ones that sometimes show up when you are working with Big Leaf Maple burl. I am going to use a scrap piece and try some different methods of filling them. Some folks leave the voids. That would work too since there is no issue of strength or integrity. The voids don't go down more than an eighth in some places and even less in most places. If the epoxy and dust don't look better than leaving it alone, I will leave it alone. I guess that the answer here is like most things which are new to me -- try out a few alternatives and see which works best. (whatever "best" means -- and here it is strictly subjective.)
Thanks for your help.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel, I am with you now. I more often than not now, like to leave those alone. In fact, the more of them there are, the better. Sometimes if the surface is less than attractive, as in a big check which has splinters hanging to the sides, I use a pencil torch to scorch the sides, before the finish sanding of the surface. At other times, I will just fold some sand-paper and round-in the edges. I had forgotten about your sculptors adz discussion. Is this related to that project?Another idea worth considering is a technique that the artist Clay Foster has been using, is to slather it good with tile-grout, leaving it heavy around certain places. This gives it an archaic look, like something which has been dug up out of the ground, or just lived a hard life in the barn-yard.
Keith,
I am a "multi-tasker". I am finishing up another adze hand-hewn bowl that is from a piece of canarywood. That has been fun. But the Big Leaf Maple Burl box is from 1/2" thick pieces that I put a bottom in and just mitred and glued the sides. It is a small box. Less than 6" on each side. While I am going to try the epoxy and dust thing, and the yellow glue and sawdust thing, just to see what the results look like, I will probably just leave the voids there to add to the look. It is nice to have an arsenal of ways to do things. I am only in this for the fun of it so I try to never do the same thing twice -- I add some twists, etc. It keeps me in the learning mode. The idea of grout, especially colored grout sounds like a hoot. I will look for a project to use it in. Thanks,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel..The voids that I am talking about are the ones that sometimes show up when you are working with Big Leaf Maple burl. Time to get out them carvin' knifes and make something pretty in there... :>)I never make mistakes. I make huge blunders!
WG,
"Time to get out them carvin' knifes and make something pretty in there... :>)"I have been doing a lot of carving lately, but with big gouges, not knives. My wife wants me to stop having so much fun and start back on the chest of drawers that she wants rebuilt. Oh well.Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
I have used CA glue with great success at filling small gaps in joinery or tear out. All the glues that I have used dry perfectly clear. If color is an issue, than just add in a little saw dust into the glue right before is sets. Then you can spray the accelerator on it and you can sand directly after it. For little fills you might need to repeat it a couple of times, but it's fast and effective.
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
Kaleo,
Haven't seen you around for a while.
How is your training going?
When are you coming back to the US? (or are you?)I have used C.A. glue for hardening a soft spot in burl. This is only my second project using this big leaf maple burl. It is beautiful stuff. When you put finish on it, the colors and patterns just jump out at you. The thin C.A. glue gives the same effect as the finish so that works well. I was wondering about the thick stuff. I believe, based on everyone's advice that the answer is either to use epoxy with sawdust or to leave it alone. I am going to try both options and see which one my wife likes best. Let me know how things are going with you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Yet another option is to use liquid hide glue and sawdust. It has a bis advantage over carpenter's glue in that it does not affect the finish/staining properties of the wood.
It will work best with a darker wood (walnut, etc).
It's a little easier to sand than epoxy.
Good luck
9619,
Funny, I just did this last week as an attempt to rescue an alder slat on a headboard project. To fill a large knot hole and 15" long crack, I used 2 drops of the Mission Brown Trans Tint in a healthy blob of epoxy. Epoxies were West Systems 15 minute cure, and Loctite 60 minute cure. I put painter's tape on the back side of the slat to keep the epoxy from running out, and also waxed the wood surrounding the knot and crack to minimize epoxy and tint penetration. Instead of filling it all in one go, I broke it up into 3 sessions, allowing each previous layer to settle.
In my experiment, the epoxy took much more time to set than unpigmented epoxy, and there was sticky residue on the repair's surface. Whether it's carrier from the Trans Tint or some un-reacted part of the epoxy I just don't know. Some portions of the fix were somewhat gummy, even after 48 hours.
It was educational to have tried this, and maybe with dry pigment or sawdust as a filler I'd be happier with the process. Yeah, I bought another alder board to replace the funky slat.
Cheers,
Seth
Seth,
Thanks for your experience with tinted epoxy. That is good to know. I don't plan to use tint in this project, but it may come up sometime in the future. At that time, I will be prepared. You said that even after a few days there was some gumminess. Let me know if that ever hardens, or if not, what you will do about it.
Thanks,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,The gumminess never cured, it remained the consistency of bubble gum. It was on the bottom of the board next to the tape, so that would have been the first layer. Maybe too much Trans Tint and not enough epoxy. I figure it was about 2 drops per 1/4 tube of epoxy. I'd modify to 2-3 drops per whole tube next time. I used Loctite 60 minute epoxy on a cherry slab to fill a punky pocket. As I sliced it flush to the surface with a sharp chisel after it fully cured, the epoxy would pop and break. This stuff was fairly brittle. A tube of Loctite was under $4 at Lowes, West Systems is $12 at Woodcraft. Maybe the premium epoxy system is worth it, especially if you can mix in a retardant. Epoxy's pretty viscous, doesn't flow or level with any great speed, so slowing the cure might allow a bigger void to be filled in one session.Somewhere in my mag stack is a FWW article about colored epoxy, that might help with recommending some alternative pigments.Cheers,Seth
Seth,
OK, I will stick with the expensive epoxy, read the FWW article on coloring it, and I will go easy on the colors, and I will test it out on a test piece before doing the real thing.
You have taught me well, Master.
Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
There are some voids in the burl that I would like to fill. They are not large...OK, I will stick with the expensive epoxy...How about something even I can do without to much fuss.Shellac flakes (color of choice) and sawdust or tiny chips of wood depending on the look needed. (tiny chips of wood Chopped up in the blender when the better half is away from the house.. Be sure to remember to clean it and put it back exactly where it was so there is less chance of her finding out what you were up to)Or see Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking; Book 2 Shaping, Veneering, Finishing; Chapter 8 Filler (page 178).
Will George,
you have proven once again that all woodworking questions eventually lead back to the trilogy by Tage Frid.
Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Tage Frid reminds me of some of the old timers I trained under.It's a lesson I learned really quickly. There is only one way to do any job. All would say in one way or another.... 'Your way or MY WAY if you want any help from me'
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