Replies

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Oct 03, 2005 04:26am | #1

   Cody at least you know what you want to achieve with your plane.  For windows and doors, you'll get into some end grain, so you'll need a low angle plane.  You'll also want a block plane rather then a bench plane because of the odd places you'll use it.  You will like the smaller size.  I'd get an adjustable mouth, so you can set it to make an aggressive cut if you've got 1/2" to knock off, or set it really fine to clean up end grain.  I'd say the plane for you would be a low angle block plane. 

   Lie-Nielsen makes superb planes if you want a new tool, or you could scrounge up an old Stanley #65.  Either would work just fine.  Lie Nielsen has a nice web site, and the old Stanley's are itemized nicely here, look in the B&G section,  http://www.supertool.com .

    

   Steve
1. 
   Ralfk | Oct 03, 2005 05:01am | #2

   I bought a Veritas low angle block plane a few years ago. I compared the Veritas to the Lie Nielson, and decided the Veritas was just a little bit more refined. Since you don't have much experience with other planes to compare it to, you may not appreciate how wonderful this tool is. But I have used many different brands of hand planes over the years, and this is hands down the best I've ever used. The veritas planes are sold through Lee Valley Tools. These planes are a bit spendy, but worth every penny if you learn to keep it sharp and tuned properly.Ralf

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Oct 03, 2005 06:16am | #3

   Ralf, I think you meant to post that to Cody, but your point is valid.  The Veritas plane is another good option.  I prefer the Lie-Nielsen, but you can't make a bad choice between those two.

    Steve

1. 
   Ralfk | Oct 04, 2005 06:01pm | #6

   I realized that I had posted my reply to the wrong person. Hopefully Cody saw my reply.

2. 
   dukeone | Oct 03, 2005 01:50pm | #4

   Cody: The folks here have given you great advice on fine tools for serious woodworking. It sounds to me, admittedly a beginner, that you don't need $200-$300 tools for what you talked about doing with them. Unless you do or are planing to do cabinet or furniture making I would think you could get by with some hardware store planes for $60 or so. They will certainly trim doors and window sash. Am I right guys?

   Duke

   Kenneth Duke Masters
   The Bill of Rights
   December 15 1791
   NRA Endowment Member
   LEAA Life Member
   CRPA Member
3. 
   UnclePaul | Oct 03, 2005 03:46pm | #5

   Dukeone is right on target.I wouldn't spend for a LN or Veritas for the type of work you are describing.I would opt for something like a Stanley/Bailey plane. You can compare them side by side in the Garrett Wade Tool catalog. 

4. 
   Griff | Oct 04, 2005 10:55pm | #7

   Hi Cody

   I read your post a bit differently than everyone else. You've received some fine advice from some excellent craftsmen about which hand plane they would choose and why, and I would not consider contradicting any of them.

   However, to me, your email also asked as much how do you learn to master and use the hand plane. Am I correct?

   If so, I don't knowthat I can offer you much advice - I certainly don't consider myself as possessing enough talent or technique to be able tp offer you advice to anyone else. Instead, I'd suggest that you consider either purchasing some books on the subject and read about how to prepare a new plane for use (they all apparently require some fine tuning before use), how to maintain it, especially how to sharpen it, and what technique to use in what situation.

   As a starter, Taunton offers a periodic publication for less than $10 on technique - just go to the book page of FW for a start, the magazine should be there. Links lead you to other pages full of other, more extensive examinations of the subject.

   Also, you could investigate your library to see what books they might have on the shelves, or what books might be available on inter-library loan (if your state has that program) that you could borrow. I used that method to investigate the content of several books published by Taunton before I purchased them from the site and found it very useful - 3 weeks with a book tells you a lot about whether it's something you're going to pick up again and again and use as a reference tool, or whether you're just going to look at the shiny, nice photos and then stick on a bookshelf somewhere to sit unused for the rest of your life.

   Lastly, back in 1999 and 2000, FW had several excellent articles in the magazine on the use of hand planes. I learned a great deal from reading them. You might also explore whether your library has FW in archives or whether a library close to you does. Excellent reference tools that should not be overlooked.

   Hope this helps. Good luck.

   Griff
1. 
   Codythehandyman | Oct 05, 2005 05:46am | #8

   Thank you everyone that responded,  It sounds like what I need is a low angle block plane, or an old Stanley #65 (time to go to EBay:) I should get a good book on them and do some reading as they sound as complicated as a carburetor.  I was looking for very basic advice on how to use a plane also.  I plane with the grain, right?  I do have enough info to get started, thanks again, Cody

1. 
   Elmer | Oct 05, 2005 06:06am | #9

   Cody, it takes hours and hours to learn how to SHARPEN a hand plane (even a block plane), and using it takes even longer to get used to.  My advise is to buy a small inexpensive belt sander, some 60, 80, 100 and 120 grit sanding belts, and a 20' extension cord and grounding plug.  Never forget the bottom of it has a very small FLAT area, and try to keep checking the surface you're sanding with straight edges, as you look for gaps....so.....hold a door or window edge up near some light as you check it.  Mark the "high" spots with a pencil and just sand those off.  Don't forget to also check the edges with a Square, etc. to ensure the edge stays at the angle it started at, or needs to become.  Note: Often the edges of doors and windows are NOT designed to be at 90 degrees, so also buy a "Sliding T-Bevel" and learn how to use that as well. 

   Final note to those of you who offered the block plane feedback; try to recall how many hours you REALLY spent learning it vs. getting great results with it.  :)

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Oct 05, 2005 06:47am | #12

   Hi Elmer,

   I recall the hours spent learning planes as a fun experience.  Can't say the same about any experience I've ever had with a belt sander.  Different strokes though.  Have a good evening.

    Steve

2. 
   Quartersawn | Oct 06, 2005 03:40am | #14

   Learning to plane with crappy planes IS difficult and tedious.  Buying a good plane is half the battle, since they will plane right out of box.  My supertuned Stanley plane with a Hock iron never planed half as good the the LN right out of the box.  I took some boards to my woodworkers club last night that I had planed with the LN low-angle jack plane, well sharpened.  Even the best craftsmen there agreed thay had never seen a better surface on an unfinished board.

   Edited 10/5/2005 8:44 pm ET by quartersawn

   Edited 10/5/2005 8:45 pm ET by quartersawn

1. 
   Elmer | Aug 10, 2007 05:43am | #16

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=62VERY cool. Thanks. When I win the lottery, I will go back to that site in VERY short order! Those look like fantastic planes.

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Oct 05, 2005 06:44am | #11

   Hi again Cody.  Yep, with the grain, usually.  Sometimes on the end, against, across the grain as well.  Just get a plane, and a chunk of scrap and experiment.  Sure, you'll find every possible way to not do it, but you'll learn the basics quickly.  Planes are not complicated, and don't be intimidated by the theorists here who over think every aspect of woodworking.  We all enjoy this craft in different ways, and some poeple would prefer to think of every possible problem that has any remote chance of arrising before they touch a piece of wood.  If I did that my shop would be spotless and I'd never get anything built. 

   If you want to learn to use planes, first get one.  I suggested the 65 for a reason, it's my favorite.  I've got about 200 planes, and I use the 65 more then any other.  There is "The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack, that is an excellent reference book.  You might want to get it, as someone else suggested.  Ebay is a decent source for both the book and the plane.  Make sure you buy a decent looking plane.  It'll be a little more pricey, but get one with no rust.  A 65 should run about $50.  Be leary of a cheaper plane, as the experienced buyers have probably noticed a fault.

   Once you get your plane, you'll need to sharpen it.  Do you sharpen your chisels?  If so, you know how to sharpen the plane.  When it dosen't skid along a finger nail, it's sharp enough.  The blade on the 65 goes in bevel up.  Set the mouth so that it is about as narrow as you can get it.  Something like 2 or 3 sheets of typing paper.  Now set the blade so is as close to the mouth of the plane as possible, without sticking out.  When you run it over the wood, it should not make contact.  Methodically advance the blade about 1/4 turn of the adjuster until you just start to make shavings.  You will want to make as fine of shavings as possible, so when the blade just starts to make contact, go about 1/4 more turn.  Now, fool around with it.   Adjust everything, and see what happens.  You'll find that too deep of a cut jams the throat.  So does too tight of mouth setting.  Too loose of a mouth setting promotes tearout, especially of this style of plane.  If the plane only cuts to one side, loosen and reallign the blade. 

   You get my drift.  I could go on all night, but you'll soon forget what I wrote here.  If you learn it by doing, you'll remember it.  You can't hurt a piece of scrap wood, and unless you drop the plane, it'll be just fine too.  One very enjoyable evening and you'll have a good start at understanding your plane.

   If you need pointers on sharpening, there have been some excellent threads here.  Search for the key words "scary sharp".

   Really sharp and a light cut will work 99% of the time.

    Steve

5. 
   ChrisB | Oct 05, 2005 06:24am | #10

   Hi Cody,

   I think you are the perfect candidate for the Veritas apron plane, just as I was. It is light but powerful and a great low angle block plane built exactly for what you and I do- a bit of handy man stuff and a bit of nice finish work also.

   I bought it based on Wood Magazines review as  best buy of low angle block planes. The A2 steel blade model #05P27.02 sells for $79.00. Be advised though, that entering the world of well made planes may make crack cocaine look like a cheap alternative habit. :^)

   Chris  

6. 
   Midnight | Oct 06, 2005 01:41am | #13

   Final note to those of you who offered the block plane feedback; try to recall how many hours you REALLY spent learning it vs. getting great results with it.  :)

   lets see now.... including the time taken to advance the blade to where it was taking a  cut, then closing the mouth to suit, overall time would be somewhere around ummm.... 10 mins...? My belt sander on the other hand is to be found in my "ya gotta be nuts.......right...???" drawer... never seen a tool that'd fill a scrap bin faster than that thing....

   Ahem...

   moving swiftly on...

   Cody... its not to late t change yer mind...  ;) sure... it might start out with just one wee plane.... but then ya need another.....and another..... Ohh.. and if you only had this one too...you'd be able to do this..n that...n lord knows what else.... you have been warned.... 

   Now... getting serious... if you're starting out from scratch, you need to get up to speed with at least 3 big issues, all at the same time... work holding, sharpening and using your chosen tool... skip any one of these and the job's gonna go pear shaped in a hurry....

   work-holding... a proper bench is the ideal here; you might get away with a pair of Workmates or good strong trestles... either way you'll need to use imagination to figure how to secure the workpiece in a way that permits you to work on it... Then think about how you'll secure the work to your "bench". What type of clamps best suit your needs and budget?? Will cheap and cheerful do for now or do you want to invest in something that'll see you through years of use??

   sharpening... this can be a mine-field... best advise here is to buy Leonard Lee's book; you'll find it here... http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070256.asp The book covers just about every way to sharpen damn near everything that needs a keen edge, you'll find a method that suits your needs in there along with thorough guidance re the pro's and con's of different sharpening media... In addition to the book, I'd strongly recommend getting a good honing guide; doesn't matter how much a tool costs, if it isn't sharp it's not much good to you. These days there's quite a range of guides on the market, some better than others. If you can, try to get a guide that'll handle your chisels with equal ease as your plane blades; when there's few excuses not to use it you'll soon gain proficiency with it..

   appropriate tooling... reading your original post and subsequent replies, I was struck by the thought that if you're trying to fine tune a room door with nothing bigger than a block plane, by the time you've re-hung the door you'll never want to use the plane again... it'll take you forever... The lack of proper handles will also do a fine job of trashing your hands too by the time you're done. You need something wide enough to make a full width cut, long enough to have a jointing action, heavy enough to slice cleanly through any knots in the stock while being comfortable enough to let you use the tool for as long as it takes to get the job done. That said, the advise about "standard" and "low" angle planes still holds true...

   What to recommend as best tool for the job will depend largely on the type of wood you're working. If its a clear (no knots) softwood, a Record or Stanley jack plane is definitely the right tool for working with the grain. Unfortunately they're not exactly brilliant at dealing with end grain cuts. Even worse, the stock blades in modern Stanleys are woefully inadequate when working with hardwoods. Now, you could go and get yourself a block plane to handle the end grain, upgrade the blades to something with a bit more meat on the bone too, or.... you could get a single plane that'll make light work of both long and end grain, capable of working both hardwood and softwood...
   Yea... I know you can see this coming... there's a catch... that one plane's quite a bit more expensive than a block plane and jack plane, but by the time you've upgraded their blades you'll be pretty close to the same price...
   What am I talking about..??? This thing.... http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515

   The difference in price is reflected in the quality of the finished tool. Straight outa the box, you'll need to spend hours flattening / polishing the back and honing the cutting edge of a cheaper tool. With the more expensive planes, most of that flattening and polishing is done for you; the plane should be in a useable condition straight outa the box. You need to assess how much work you'll be putting a tool like this to before making this kind of investment... They make for lousy paperweights...

   Unfortunately, it doesn't end with just the bench, clamps, sharpening gear and suitable plane... you need to be able to accurately assess your progress. Long straight edges are a must; the longer the better, especially when working something as big as a door. Personally I rely on a 6ft builders level. Consider a good square, marking gauge and bevel gauge as essential tools too. Planing something to fit isn't just a matter of going nuts with the plane for a while; removing too much stock is way worse than not removing enough.. you need to be able to gauge when enough is enough, you need to assess exactly where you need to remove stock and at what angle the edge needs to be to mate properly with its frame...

   Last bit.... honest.... ;)

   Assuming these doors are old and have been painted, all kinds of blade chipping nasties can be lurking beneath the paint. Nails, pins, screws, anything along those lines will take a chip out of your newly honed blade leaving you with hours of work to do on a course stone... Make sure you remove the paint first; you need to be able to see what you're working with. Once stripped, if you notice any filler in the wood, dig it out to ensure it's not covering over a concealed nail or pin head. If you find anything you can't remove, bury it deeper with a nail set and hammer; you can always use filler again once you're done planing...

   You've already made one of the wisest moves; there's a wealth of information available to you right here... all ya gotta do is ask; its up to you to figure out what's best advise for you....

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   Codythehandyman | Oct 06, 2005 07:24pm | #15

   Thank you Mike and everyone for the wealth of information.