Replies

1. 
   RSRose | Jul 11, 2002 02:45am | #1

   "Real" hardwood Mahogany comes from Africa, Cuba, Central America. Luan, also called "Phillipine Mahagony" is a soft look-alike (superficially). It gets used as an imitation of the real thing.

   Rich

2. 
   jonsherryl | Jul 11, 2002 03:22am | #2

   Dave, the term "genuine' should mean that the wood is cut from a species belonging to the American genus; Swietenia, which these days is almost always Swietenia macrophylla, AKA Honduras mahogany...although most of it is now exported from Brazil.

   The African mahoganies, cut from species in the genus Khaya, are also "true" mahoganies in that this genus does belong to the mahogany family; Meliaceae. The trade sometimes gets a little sloppy with their terminology and refer to these African species as being genuine. It's a somewhat deceptive practice, but at least both the African and American genera produce very nice cabinet woods.

   Other so called "mahoganies", such as the lauans do not belong to the mahogany family and should never be referred to as either "true" or "genuine." The lauans belong to the Southeast Asian genus; Shorea, which is in the Dipterocarpaceae family and they are not at all closely related to the true mahoganies. There are literally dozens of other counterfeit mahoganies on the market...but that's too long a story to cover here.     

1. 
   RSRose | Jul 11, 2002 03:30am | #3

   Jon,

   Then African mahogany is a "true" mahogany, but not "genuine" mahogany?

   Rich

1. 
   jonsherryl | Jul 11, 2002 05:03am | #6

   Rich, the way you state it is the preferred usage. "True" means the species belongs to the mahogany family; Meliaceae, while "genuine" normally indicates it is not only a true mahogany, but actually a species of the American genus; Swietenia.

   There are three or four species in the Swietenia genus, but the dominant one now available is the mainland species; Swietenia macrophylla. The Caribbean species; Swietenia mahagoni (AKA Cuban mahogany) is now extremely scarse. There is also a Mexican species (Swietenia humilis), but it is usually comingled with Swietenia macrophylla and marketed as "Honduras" or "genuine" mahogany, because the latter is the more recognized and prestegious variety. They are quite similar anyway, but on average the Mexican species tends to  be slightly denser and a bit finer textured.

2. 
   mapleman | Jul 11, 2002 04:03am | #4

   Jon,

   I have to tell you, that was one heck of an explanation. That is the reason I like this forum, people like you who have all the answers (or most of them). Now just for kicks, you wouldn't happen to know where bird eyes come from in maple and other species?

   Lee

1. 
   jonsherryl | Jul 11, 2002 05:11am | #7

   Lee, the exact cause of birds eye is not yet known. There are several theories and my favorite is that it results from a localized imbalance in plant hormones that seems to occur when the tree is put under stress.  If you subscribe to FWW, I did a Q&A on this subject a couple of years ago. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig it out and send you a copy.

3. 
   LD | Jul 11, 2002 04:08am | #5

   Thanks for your learned response.

   If you're buy wood to repair an recently made piece of furniture, then "genuine" mahogany would be what you would want, right??

1. 
   StanleyNiemiec | Jul 11, 2002 05:50am | #8

   If you are buying wood and you want to assure yourself some level of protection in getting the species you desire, then I recommend you include in your purchase order or have written on the invoice the scientific name. 

   If  you want American/Hondurus mahogany then you should indicate Swietana macrophyllum.  If you want American Black walnut, request Juglans nigra.  It may sound excessively snobbish but the specific purpose of scientific nomenclature is to eliminate confusion of common or local names.

   For a while people in the PNW were attempting to improve markets for Red alder (Alnus rubra) and were using the term Western cherry as a gimick in their marketing.  Still other individuals were attempting to improve sales of Madrone (Arbutus menziesii) and were calling it Western cherry.  Neither, in actuality, is a Cherry (Prunus sp) and it really made a mess for the few people who were actually producing Western cherry (Prunus emarginatii) aka Bitter cherry.  And for those seeking/selling Black cherry (Prunus serotinia), it likewise created a problem for them. 

1. 
   jonsherryl | Jul 11, 2002 06:04am | #10

   Stanley, your point about botanical names is well taken, but I feel personally threatened by your spelling...I take a certain amount of pride in being the worst speller on this board.

1. 
   StanleyNiemiec | Jul 12, 2002 08:56am | #13

   OK  --  as close as I can tell here is the errata  --

   Black cherry..... Prunus serotina

   Bitter Cherry..... Prunus emarginata

   Honduras Mahogany..... Swietenia macrophylla

   I can attribute my poor spelling to two primary factors.  The first is the learning disability I have that is co-morbid with my primary disability.  I had one hell of a time in skool and I guess I should expect continuing criticism related to my inability to meet some minimal stardard of perfection.   Secondly, I got my undergraduate degree in Medieval history and spelling during that period was considerably variable and creative.

   I apologize for my mistakes  --  I have been extremely busy getting several paying jobs out and did not take the extra time to check each and every scientific term's spelling.  I guess I was attempting to communicate a basic message and not necessarily concerned about alphabetic correctness.  I hope you (and others) understood the basics of what I was attempting to convey.

   Is there anything else that needs correcting?????????????????????????????????????

   Edited 7/12/2002 1:59:34 AM ET by NIEMIEC1

2. 
   jonsherryl | Jul 12, 2002 03:33pm | #14

   Well Stanley, I think the English majors put two Ms in gimmick...but, like you, I can't think of anything less important than spelling.

2. 
   LD | Jul 11, 2002 08:28pm | #12

   Thanks for the learnin'.

   I recently saw a sale on Brazilian cherry.  Is that the same thing as the black cherry we get here.

1. 
   jonsherryl | Jul 12, 2002 03:58pm | #15

   Dave, you addressed this question to Stanley, but since he's busy checking his spelling...No, Brazilian cherry is not closely related to our native black cherry. It's botanical name is Hymenaea courbaril and it belongs to the legume family; Leguminosae. It is more closely related to the rosewoods than to true cherry, which is in the Rose family. It has picked up the common name of Brazilian cherry because it has a cherry-like color, but it's a much heavier and harder wood.

   I think the better and less confusing common names for this species are courbaril or jatoba. It produces a gum (copal) that has been used in making varnish and its very attractive and duable wood makes excellent flooring, but you have to be careful when working with it. The fine dust is irritating and potentially toxic, if you develop a sensitivity to it.

2. 
   jonsherryl | Jul 11, 2002 05:51am | #9

   Dave, all of the mahoganies are used in furniture making, but if it's a high quality piece and of relatively recent manufacture (mid 20th century or later)...Then, it's probably genuine American mahogany of the mainland type; Swietenia macrophylla, AKA Honduras mahogany...especially if the piece is American made and a period reproduction (Chippendale, Sheraton, etc.) If it's an 18th, 19th or early 20th century original, it could easily be either the mainland species or the Caribbean species. The probability of it being Caribbean mahogany would increase if it is both old and of continental European manufacture (French or Spanish as opposed to English or American.)

   The most important issue is to match the figure and color of the replacement wood to the rest of the piece. The mahoganies are very variable and locating the exact species is no guarantee it will match.  Personally, I'd look for material that is being marketed as either "true" or "genuine" to ensure it has the physical anatomy (figure) of a real mahogany and then place top priority on the appearance (color and texture) of the specific stock you select. Color can be doctored a bit, but figure and texture are tough to fake. 

1. 
   LD | Jul 11, 2002 02:45pm | #11

   Again, thanks for all the info.  The piece is a recent (within 10 years) manufacture of a period reproduction.  So, I'll go with the "genuine" mahogany.  The repairs are replacing the drawers, so the main concern will be in the color matching of the drawer fronts to the case.

3. 
   Brewgonia | Jul 12, 2002 04:00pm | #16

   As a side note, when I was in the Navy stationed in the Phillipines we used a lot of blocking and wooden skids. What was it all made of? Well, the fast growing and locally available Mahogony! It was all over the place, kind of like cheap pine in the States.

1. 
   RSRose | Jul 12, 2002 08:01pm | #17

   "kind of like cheap pine in the States"

   Only softer!

   Rich