I am interested in any comments from anyone who has worked with German Beech. I saw some at a trade show last week on display by a sawmill from Washington State. They were trying to sell everyone on how great it is. I have to admit, it is some beautiful wood. They said that it machines well, sands well, is very stable and stains easily. They had a hand out with a rating system to compare to other types of wood done by three different indepedent research firms. The German Beech rated highest or as high as all other woods they compared against in every category.
The problem is that the rating said that German Beech machined and sanded at the same level as Hard Maple. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I don’t think Hard Maple machines or sands well at all!!
The reason I am instered is that I am looking for an inexpensive alternative (as close in price as possible) to Poplar for both stain and paint grade cabinet face frames. The German Beech is harder, more stable (so I’m told), has beautiful even grain and color, and stains beautiful.
What I have learned so far is that there is a big difference in German Beech vs North American Beech. German Beech is more stable, has a more even grain and more even color than North American.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Scott
Replies
Scott, perhaps the Germans have a better way of processing the wood so that it has greater stability. If that's true, I haven't heard about it...and the fact is the beeches are notorious for their extremely poor stability. As for the European species of beech; Fagus sylvatica, it is so similar to our North American species that I can't reliably separate samples of the two. Our beech species; Fagus grandifolia, is made up of 3 or 4 races, extending from eastern Canada down into Northern Mexico and the wood can be somewhat variable in terms of color and texture, due to both minor genetic differences and growing conditions. I suspect the European species also exhibits some regional variation...but I've yet to meet a stable beech.
I've heard Europeans claim their beech has a more uniform texture and is "superior" to ours (one of the few hardwoods they have that's even in the running against North American counterparts, IMO)...and they do make some marvelous bent wood beech furniture over there...But I think that speaks more to their craftsmanship, than to their materials.
...So, I think somebody's trying to smoke you with a little marketing hype, Scott. Abject honesty isn't one of the lumber trade's primary shortcomings.
Hi, Jon -- I have a question that's not intended to be a critical remark about your and others' opinion concerning German beech. My Ulmia workbench is supposed to be German beech and it's very, very stable. If the species isn't stable, why do they make classic-style workbenches out of it? Jim
Jim,
Beech is almost ubiquitous in European workbenches, simply because it is available and cost effective given the various trade-offs of cost vs durability vs stability.
How stable is your bench? Do you measure its dimensions? Beech moves quite a bit and workbenches are designed with movement in mind. Hard Maple is a better material, but it's more expensive. Beech works well for the purpose, so it's popular.
And it is a pretty wood.
R
Edited 11/26/2002 2:42:08 PM ET by Rich Rose
Jim, I think Rich and Philip have pretty much answered your question. The Europeans don't enjoy quite the selection we do when it comes to hardwoods. Their common maples belong to what we would call the "soft" maple group. Their beech is reasonably hard (comparable to our red oak) and has the advantage of being diffuse-porous...So, as Rich says: It's the best domestic they've got for the purpose.
What's interesting in Philip's post is apparently they treat it ("evaporate?" it) to improve it's stability. I certainly don't know anything specific about the process, but suspect it involves steaming. I know steaming a wood prior to kiln drying it shortens the subsequent kiln drying time and results in less degrade when drying troublesome woods...which CERTAINLY includes beech. Their beech isn't inherently more stable than ours. In fact, it was the wood-of-choice among 19th century English chair bodgers for the very reason that it has horrendous shrinkage. It allowed them to use green seats and air dried spindles, so that when the two members equalized in moisture content the joint would lock up solidly without the use of adhesives.
The fact that this "processed" German beech is apparently darker in color also suggests that it is probably a steaming technique, since steam usually causes a wood's extracives to polymerize into pigments...The same trick we use here on walnut and cherry to darken their color...Sure do wish we'd get some posts from kiln operators over there...or that our own resident Brit , Sgian, would join in and provide the details.
OK, I get the concensus here, but I still have to say my Ulmia bench of beech is one helluva nice workbench. I guess the same thing made out of maple would be great, also, even though it would show the dirt a lot more. Maybe it's just the mass. It weighs in at about 350 pounds. I haven't noticed, Rich, any movement, but I have to say I don't plan to measure it -- just beat on it occasionally and use it to hold my pretzels and, ahh, fruit juice. Incidentally, Jon, I brought back a sample piece of beech from Barbara Gill and did notice it warped a bit along the way home. Thought it might have been the red convertible factor!
Jim, I guess I can see what you like about it...A 350 lb bench would have its advantages down there in hurricane country.
...And as for hauling that piece of beech back from Barbara's mill...You're lucky you didn't run into a really humid stretch. It might have torn the side panels out of your little red wagon.
(Footnote for lurkers)...Jim is an avid wood worker / timber cruiser based in Florida who scours the countryside from Key West to Peoria looking for bargains at small sawmills. He travels with his wife in one of those two seater whatchamacallit, pregnant rollerskates...a little red MG or Sunbeam convertable. Says it keeps him from buying too much...But it sure sounds to me like an overly redundant strategy. Why would you need both a small car AND your wife along? You might as well leave your wallet at home. :o)
I made my workbench from American beech. I didn't have a lot of weight on it when I stickerd it and it wiggled like a snake. The mill cut beech to 5/4. If it hadn't been so thick I'd had nothing left when I joind it.
Stability was no problem in a big built up slab like a bench top. My son used it in stereo cabnet racks in the form of 1x1 inch stiles and 3/4 inch shelves. Once dried we had little problem with stability.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland
Well you asked me to make a comment Jon, so I will. As 'wop' said, European beech is ubiquitous in those parts. I've used tons of the stuff. It's used for everything, from fine show wood in its own right in both the solid and veneer, to hidden construction parts, to painted furniture items, to upholstered frames such as sofas, to a substitute stained and faked up to represent just about everything from mahogany to walnut, to tools such as mallets, planes, and benches, and for steam bending and laminated bending. It, along with ash is a classic choice for this last job. Incidentally, I was able to demonstrate to students beeches flexibilty by steaming a 12 mm diameter dowel for about 15 minutes and tying the stuff into a tight knot without any signs of grain fracture.
If its end use is to be inside, it's hard and durable, and will take shocks like nobodies business, hence its popularity for mallet heads and handles, chisel handles, etc.. It moves a lot in service-- up there with the white oaks, and I always allow about 6 mm per 300 mm width of total expansion and contraction. That's about 1/4" per foot, or 1/8" either way. Outside usage means it rots away to a nasty mouldy grey/black in no time
The central European beeches from Germany, Austria, Poland Hungary, Romania, etc., tend to be much more pink than beech grown in climates such as that experienced in Great Britain, where the colour tends towards a dun sort of brown-- this might be something to do with the generally temperate maritime GB climate as opposed to the harsher central European climate with its seasonal extremes, and soil type may be a factor too, and so on, ad infinitum. The steaming process used to season the stuff may be a factor resulting in the strong pinky brown colour too-- air dried beech is almost unheard of- but I suspect the growing conditions are important.
I don't think I really added any wisdom to this thread, just a few thoughts. Slainte.Some stuff I've made.
Thanks to everyone for all the info.
Jon,
My apologies, but Philip's post is dead on the mark from what I have learned so far. From what I have learned the trick to giving Beech it's stability and even color is the way it is dried. In Europe, Beech is best dried during a certain time of the year (I have not found out what time of year that is yet), if you get Beech that was not dried during this time it will be less stable and of different color. The mill that I talked to about this said that they have perfected the drying process and that they can process stable, uniform Beech year round. I have been searching for their website but have not found it yet. I have it at the shop, but I don't remember what it was. I will get it and post it probably this evening. I would really like for you all to check it out and then let me know if you have any additional comments.
Philip,
The comment you made about not working with Beech anymore because it looks common and cheap, that is what Poplar is to me and why I am looking for a different wood to work with. No one in my area currently works with Beech that I am aware of. If it pans out that this Beech is as stable as they claim, I would be able to build beautiful (IMHO), yet unique cabinets at a lower cost than all the other hardwoods.
Thanks again to all!
In giving this thread a final read, I'm concerned that it sounds like I've got a bad attitude about beech...which certainly isn't the case. It's been my experience over a lifetime of wood working that there's no such thing as a "bad" wood...if you use it wisely to take advantage of whatever properties it has...And beech certainly has its bountiful benefits. For instance (as has come out in earlier posts), it's one of the world's best for steam bending and, because of it's diffuse-porous and relatively uniform density (even despite its moderately coarse texture), it shapes and turns very well. It's low tannin content sets it apart from other members of its family (the oaks and chestnuts) and probably accounts for its poor decay resistance...but for those who find tannin especially irritating (like me) it's a much more pleasant wood to work with.
Also, given its density and shock resistance (it's about as dense as northern red oak, but not as susceptible to splitting), it's a reliable choice in some of the more rugged furniture applications (chairs, for example.) It can be attractive, too. Because of its moderately large rays and warm pinkish color, it has a softspoken beauty that makes it easy to recognize and sort of comfortingly familiar...And all this comes from one of the prettiest trees in the Northern Hemisphere. A few moments of solitude spent strolling in a beech grove is about as good as it gets when it comes to a communion with nature...So, given the offering of all these gifts, it's easy to forgive a few warts.
Seems to me, Jon, any grown man who gets off strolling through a beech grove will sooner or later get to be known as a son of a beech. Also, I don't know how anybody who derives from Canadians can possibly think a 350 pound workbench by itself would survive a hurricane, which is why mine is always covered with the biggest Lie-Nielsen planes I can possibly put on it, and which no doubt contributes a whole lot to its stability. Naturally, with all that iron on it I don't actually do any woodworking, and that is why those small pieces of wood I collect in my little red convertible are just right. After all, what is a small piece of twisted wood to someone with a twisted mind, I ask you. At least I'm not trying to load my trunk with itty bitsy pieces of Cuban contraband wood just for dulcimers!
Scott,
I've got to agree with Jon and not just because he's the most knowledgeable source of wood information I know of.
European beech is traditionally steamed during the seasoning process and steaming is what produces the reddish color of European beech. As to stability, I don't think there's a lick of difference. One difference is that American saw mills avoid beech because of seasoning problems. In my experience, beech does offer some problems in drying but they can be overcome. We have an abundance of different woods and beech isn't necessarily among the most abundant. Most of the American beech ends up in pallets or Budwiser kegs. It's sad really. A lot of nice wood is consumed making a mediocre bitter beer or is wasted in pallets.
If you can get a good price on the European beech, it's sure worth using and designing around. You should, however, tell your salesman that you prefer it to tickle when he's blowing smoke up your rear end.
In Europe we use beech for just about everything in which a hard cheap wood is required. Yes it is very stable. It does not machine or sand anything like hard maple, It is much less prone to tearout and sands exceptionally. Here it is the wood of choice for the medium to low cost solid wood furniture industry and is used for everything. It stains well in all tones even dark wiithout much problem of blotching but I think it is at its best with a natural finish. Here it is also sold commonly "evaporated"(that's a direct translation so don't hold it as perfect) which is a process in which it is dried and chemically treated although I can't off the top of my head recall the details of the process. Any way ths renders the wood a more reddish tone and is supposed to improve its stability. I can't tell the dif in the stability but the colour is nice. As far as working it goes it's great to work, nice odor, machines great, you can use the wood all the way to the bark, no sap wood, as such little loss on rough cut boards,,finishes good. Now for the defects weather resistance; poor , you don't use it outside, end grain acts much different in finishing than the long grain. I pretty much consider it an ideal wood and yes I have used a good bit of it and have seen tons of it used. I don't use it much anymore,even though I consider it a beautiful wood, simply because if I design a piece in beech it will look a bit cheap because the wood is just too common here..
Philip
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