Well I bought some more books so this newbie is at least contributing to the success of guys like Jeff. It’s worth it as I learn more and more.
On a maple box, I dyed, then sealed with 1lb shellac, and then applied a glaze of gel stain and boiled linseed oil (equal parts). It’s been about a week and it’s still slightly tacky. I should have added some varnish and used less boiled linseed oil. I guess I left too much on the surface but it was the appropriate tone I wanted.
I have now learned about using varnish in the mix, and japan driers, etc. Like I said more books.
But, to continue with my current little learning experience, what would be the best way to speed the drying of the boiled linseen oil that’s on it now? Sunlight? I just moved the box to the finished basement where there is a dehumidifier. I want to get it dry so I can varnish.
Is it possible to varnish when this is slightly tacky or is this as bad of an idea as I think?
Thanks
Steve
Replies
Yes, it is as bad as you think to varnish over a tacky finish. A recipe for disaster, in fact.
I don't understand the mix of gel stain with BLO. Gel stain has its own thixotropic agent which serves as the thickener that gives it a chemistry I don't understand. Gel stain works OK as a glaze in its own right, helped by its property of not penetrating deeply into the lower layers. Adding BLO is adding a penetrating substance, presumably in an attempt to slow down the curing of the gel stain. Clearly somethings weren't compatible in the mix. At this point you can only be patient.
Heat is likely to be the most likely aid to curing. If you can put the objects in an 80 degree (give or take) space for several more days you may get the cure you want. Low humidity helps, but most of the benefit seems to occur with RH levels still fairly high. If a week of warmth doesn't get a solid cure, then you may have to strip this all off and start anew.
When I want to mix my own glaze I start with pigments that are not complicated by the gel factor. I usually use artists oil paint, or powdered pigment, adding a very little BLO and some varnish, with enough thinner to make it workable. I usually don't do complicated glaze effects so it is OK to be fairly fast drying. If I were intending to do fancier things, such as shading moldings or carvings, I would probably buy a slower curing, dedicated glaze base and add my pigments to that instead of adding significantly more BLO. I try to keep BLO at a minimum above the surface of the wood, as is the case with a glaze, since it creates a soft layer in the finish. Adding BLO to slow the cure works fine in moderation, but I tend to err on the conservative side with this.
I used the BLO with the gel stain as I was trying to knock down the amount of affect the gel stain would have as a glaze. I was using the General Finishes Gel Stain recommended by the Woodcraft guy. I liked the color but wanted to be able to wipe it off faily well and only have a minimal affect. I should have used a lot less BLO and included some oil base varnish, I think, to get less oil and more resin, AND definitely applied thinner.
Tonight I have been messing with Japan Drier and mixtures involving Sherwin Williams fast drying Alkyd Varnish. I am learning that I need a lot less BLO, more varnish, and Turpentine to thin as needed. I just used too much BLO, I guess. Previously, I had only used Tung Oil and had not tried such combos. Learning is fun! And slow.....
I just picked up a Taunton book called Traditional Finishes and need to read it. Also, gotta go back through the Jewitt book on finishing.
I called the local Utrecht art supply store and they don't have Japan colors so I was trying ready made colors that fit what I wanted.
In one FWW article on creating an old maple finish, the guy just used the clump of stain out of the bottom of a regular oil stain. I need to read that one again too. Gotta learn to mix the right stuff in the right amounts. I think this is more complex than the automotive 2k paints I use.
I an trying to graduate from the Minwax Lowes Hardware store syndrome of furniture finishing. There are so many finishing methods when you start investigating this stuff.
I see your point regarding heat versus lowered RH. It's a chemical reaction that would be assisted by raising the temp.
In my mind, gel stains and varnishes are separate categories, and I wouldn't just go mixing stuff with them. Two alternatives come to mind. One is to add another seal coat so you could wipe off the gel to practically nothing. Another is to mix the gel stain with gel varnish from the same product line.
Japan colors are fine, but not needed. The art supply place did have artists oil paints that work just as well in an oil based stain or glaze. Just avoid the really cheap students brands--they may include some waxes as thickeners. Fortunately the colors most useful for wood finishing are the earth colors--umbers and siennas as well as ochres--tend to be in the lower price brackets.
Ok, to wipe off the current glaze finish, the best product for that would be mineral spirits, right? I really won't lose much color anyway. I will check the box today. I noticed that the box lid is losing its tackiness. I will see what a day in by the warm air of the dehumidifier does. With the finish wiped off, I could use the General Finishes glaze base and colors to really do the glaze right with the right products. They carry that at Woodcraft. I haven't seen things like this at Lowes. I can visit that art supply supply based on your comments regarding the use of oil colors. Just make sure to avoid the cheap stuff or anything with wax. Thanks
If you're up for one more book, I'll suggest Bob Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishing, the revised and updated version. It provides a really complete introduction to the entire subject, and concentrates on helping you understand how all these products and techniques work and interact with the wood. I got a lot out of Jewitt's book too, but I'd not do without Flexner.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
I looked at Flexner's book at the book store! For some reason, I went with Jeff Jewitt's book. I think it's only that his writing style is easy to absorb and he presents his comparison pics well. I may have to visit the book store for a coffee and a read tonight. My wife calls me when she doesn't know where I disappeared to. She either asks if I am at Woodcraft or the bookstore.
Add one teaspoon of Japan drier per pint of BLO and re-apply.
That's more JD than my experiments got to last night. I was working up to that. Can I apply this over my currently drying layer or do I need to clean it off and start over? Wondering if the BLO would blend with the current layer like shellac does.
If the only thing on the piece is BLO, then coming behind that application with the application of BLO + JD that I mentioned will speed drying time of the whole she-bang.
Have you already applied shellac?
Nope, there is nothing else on the piece.
Current steps on the box are:
1. 1lb pale dewaxed shellac sealing
2. Dyed with mix of waterbased Transtint
3. Two coats of 1lb pale dewaxed shellac
to seal the dye from the glazing step.
4. BLO/glaze appliedand then waiting to dry. I didn't want to proceed until I got a completely set finish out of the glaze. My next step was going to be a light shellac coat to seal and then wipe on varnish. I may not actually need the shellac as I decided to go back to Arm-R-Seal and not use a waterbased varnish.Would you add any turpentine to that BLO (1 teas JD, 1 pint BLO) or just go at that strength? I only mention it thinking that the VOC turpentine might help blend it to the previous layer. Might also melt into it and mess up the glaze coloring too.
That's quite a finishing routine. I think I need to be asking you for advice.
With all due respect, that routine seems a tad bit overwrought to me but I'm sure you have a specific end result in mind.
Edited 5/25/2006 2:08 pm ET by BossCrunk
Oh I am probably doing too much but I have to start somewhere that doesn't include Minwax and one step. I am reading and reading these days to understand finishing. The components here are so complex in their combinations. I taught myself auto painting with 2k polyurethane Dupont and Omni products so I could paint computer cases (my daughter wanted a pink computer for college so I built and painted one, I'm a computer geek). I probably don't skips some steps I could there too! At least in auto paints I know exactly what I can combine and what not. This area has so many ways to produce a find finish.
There's what a pink custom auto grade computer looks like. It was tough going into the automotive paint store and asking for pink, believe me. Only for a daughter....
I found one of my Jewitt articles last night and he describes that oil based glaze will stay a little tacky. He seals right over this with shellac and topcoats. But he mentions that he doesn't use polyurethane as it may have adhesion problems. So I guess I may be trying to get something to dry that may never get past tacky.
I have to admit I find Jeff's finishing techniques (traditional techniques) mesmerizing.
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