Getting by without a jointer-planer?
Hi All,
First time post here in the finer side of the taunton wood related forums. Lack of space precludes the purchase of a jointer (wifey had some input on that decision too …something about what constitutes suitable use of available funds…). Just finished a railing and spindles using framing wood that, despite my best intentions, still looks like framing wood … painted white. I could probably justify the purchase of one of those portable planers that they rave about. Could definitely move it down the stairs (that are more like a ladder) into the basement of this 1912 house for storage too. My question, how does one make do with just a planer? Some of you will suggest a hand jointer. But experience has taught me that I am not too skilled using the hand tools. Should I just get a hand jointer and practice like crazy until I get a suitable outcome or are there other ways to get by jointer-less? I am not going to try and make fine furniture…just some tables and other wood projects that would surely benefit from straight, flat, square-edged wood. I have a circular saw, compound mitre saw and several hand saws in the quiver. I bet not all of you have 400 lb jointers lurking in your shops and manage to make fine projects. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Phil
Replies
Vaughnzdad,
I didn't see table saw on your list of tools. I'd get one of them long before a jointer or planer.
Remember, A planer is a "one trick pony" it does one job - make wood chips, er... I mean make wood thinner.
Jointers do two or three jobs, smooth edges, rabbet (some do anyway) and if you're crazy enough, plane (ok I exaggerate a bit - I've tried to plane with a jointer and been unpleasantly suprprised).
Tablesaw on the other hand will allow you to cut pretty good glue-able edges, Rip, cross cut, miter, bevel, make tenons, groove (dado), Resaw (limited) etc...
I can talk to your wife it will help :-)
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Mark,No table saw either...those ladder like stairs that I mentioned are also an impediment to getting anything big like a table saw downstairs. However, I could probably get one of those portable table saws or maybe even a contractor's saw downstairs, particularly if the contractor's saw can be disassembled. I'm sure this has been the subject of numerous threads but, in your opinion, is it worth it to risk maybe my life and most likely the future functionality of my back to get a contractor's saw down into the basement?Phil
I missed the thing about the ladder. Go with a portable. There are some quite nice ones... of course you are limited to the size of things you can build so a small TS will do just fine...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
The two most important tools in my shop are my bandsaw and my benchtop planer.
But then you do not say what you are making or the quality of the wood you have.
The two most important tools in my shop are my HEATER in winter and the bathroom!
I'm old!
George,I have big box quality wood and I doubt I will be making anything that graces the pages of FW. Just some neuvo rustic furniture, built-ins, stuff like that.Phil
I have a 6 inch jointer.. I like it BUT... For MOST work.. My Table Saw and a good sharp blade do just as well. Well, the jointer makes a smoother finish but not by much. I do not regret getting the jointer, but I am SURE I could get along without it.
Will,See my post to Mark...what are your thoughts on my questiojns about contractor's saw or portable table saws?Phil
Welcome to Knots,
I don't own a jointer and get by just fine without one, but I wouldn't want to give up my planer. In fact it is on my very short list of must have power tools, the other being a lathe, bandsaw, and router ( although I'm somewhat reluctant to include the router, since I have a love/hate relationship with them). As you can see I'm not a member of the table saw club, I have one, a little $139 Lowe's special, that I use once in a while, but except for one operation I preform on it, I could get rid of it, and not miss it. I'm a hand tool advocate, so I would say get the hand jointer, it will be much more versatile, storage won't be a problem, even when you see how well they work and want to add more planes to your collection.
All of these opinions are formed from making period reproduction in solid wood, and wouldn't work for every situation.
Rob Millard
Phil,
I did woodworking for almost six years before I finally bought a table saw. By the time I got my table saw, I was building all kinds of furniture and even doing things for sale. I finally bought a table saw about a month ago -- the Ridgid TS2400, which is a bench-top model. I really like it. Since I rarely rip pieces over 6' long, this is all the saw I need.
If you want a saw small enough for your shop, but has great accuracy and is made well, get the Ridgid. When you do your research on bench-top saws, you'll end up comparing two models: The Bosch 4000 and the Ridgid TS2400. Let me save you some trouble: http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=22638.1
But before you get a table saw, I would suggest you first get a band saw. With a band saw, you can rip narrow pieces, resaw, cut veneers, cut curves, and even rip regular stock. For years, I ripped material up to 10" wide and 8' long on the band saw, using outfeed support. People will say this is crazy, but it worked. And the band saw is a lot safer than the table saw! I happen to own the Jet 14", but I have heard very good thigs about Grizzly and Delta models as well.
After you rip on the band saw, you can then joint the wood on a router table. If you're using 1x or 2x material, there is no need for a jointer. I still don't own a jointer, and I prepare edges on my router table by offsetting the fences. It works beautifully -- you have a lot more visibility since you are looking down at the cut, it leaves a better finish, you can take off extremely precise amounts, and blade changes are easier. You also will have a set-up that does all your rabbeting, dadoing, edge shaping, and a lot more.
My suggestion would be to invest in a 14" band saw and also get the best router table you can afford. That's where I spent my money. I bought the table and a router lift from Woodpecker. I can do all the things I mentioned above, plus I can do unlimited dovetails and box joints. Here are the links:
http://www.woodpeck.com/lsjoinerysystem.html
http://www.woodpeck.com/precisionrouterlift.html
After that, I would suggest a planer and a drill press. The table saw and jointer, in my opinion, are 5th or 6th on the list of priorities.
I do not have stock in Ridgid or Woodpecker. I just believe in doing all I can to share information about tools and companies that are doing a good, or bad, job.
Edited 3/26/2005 10:26 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Matthew,Thanks for the good advice. I just picked up a gently used fixed base router, so your ideas are timely and will be added to the matrix of possibilities. So, you would use a mondo flush trim bit to do this?Phil
Phil,
No, I don't use a flush-trim bit. I use a simple straight bit. To do jointing on the router table, get a bit with the largest diameter you can find, so it has as much stiffness as possible. I have used various ones for this, but the one I am using right now is an MLCS bit with 1 1/2" diameter and 1 1/4" cut length (Model #7786, http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_strai.html).Here are the steps I follow to joint on the router table:
(1) Offset the outfeed fence by about 1/32". I have found that that is a good amount to take off: it straightens boards pretty quickly and yet is a small bite.(2) Align the outfeed fence with the high point of the router bit. There are various ways to do this. What I do is rotate the bit so its highest point is facing forward. I then pull the fence forward ahead of the blade. Holding a straightedge against the fence, I gently push the fence until the straightedge just touches the blade. (3) Lock the fence. With the power OFF, take a piece of wood and hold it so it's against the blade and the outfeed fence. Slide it gently to your left. The wood will "click" as it moves off the outfeed fence. With the Incra LS Positioner, I use the micro-adjuster to move the fence forward a step at a time, sliding the wood with each step until the "click" goes away. This tells me that the outfeed fence and the blade are aligned. This part usually takes about three clicks.(4) Tighten the fence. Start the router and run a test piece through. While running the test piece, if I see a space opening up between the wood and the fence at the end of the cut, I know my outfeed fence is too far forward. If there is snipe at the end of the cut, I know the outfeed fence is too far back. Depending on what I see, I click the fence forward or back a step and run the test piece again. You know it's perfect when you run a crooked board through and in one or two passes it's perfectly straight.The drawback to this system is that you cannot face joint with this method. But like I said earlier, you gain precision, visibility, and ease of operation.Another benefit is that you can joint relatively small pieces. I can run pieces as thin as 1/2" through this setup.Let me know if you need any more information on this.
Edited 3/26/2005 5:31 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
Sorry but I seem to be missing the point.
Surely the function of a jointer is to straighten and sqare a piece of wood.
Just about all the timber I get requires that I first do what the buzzer(jointer) does,then let the game begin.
I expect you are trying to maintain more precision than necessary.All of the wood in my shop is rough sawn. 8' boards go into the planer without jointing. I saw to width with my bandsaw and that is straight enough after sanding for glueups.
So, no face-jointing? How'd you get so lucky?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Yes the function of a jointer is to straighten (well, flatten one side) and/or square up a piece of lumber. But he's trying to find out if he can get by without one. The short answer is, yes.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Vaughnzdad,
I too started out small and a few tools. But a table saw is still by back bone of my shop. I have a Delta contractor table saw (direct drive). Nice small and you will be able to carry it down those 1912 steps (without the wife seeing you). I ran into the same problem with jointing lumber to make table tops. So I bought a FRUED Glue Line Rip blade. It is made out of heaveir gauge steel and it rips great. Leaves a nice edge that can be glued without any noticable joint lines.
Ever think of getting your bride into wood working? I tried and it didn't work. Mine is into quilting. When she bought a $1200 sewing machine I bought a jointer. Just a thought. Good luck and we'll see you around here.
JOE
Joe,Thanks for the advice. My wife is also a quilter...she has the $1500 Bernina sewing machine. On retrospect, I wish I had collected a free chit to cash in at some later date when she bought that one...although she did go along with the purchase of the 1984 Westfalia moneypit, err, I mean camper van. I got off light though. Her mom has the $8000 Bernina sewing machine. When I heard what she paid for it, I asked if she got in it and drove to the store after she finished quilting. I think she has it subsized though...something about renting it out to NASA to control the space shuttle when she is not doing applique (yeah, when you hear the terminology often enough....it just sticks with you). Sorry for getting off topic but...us quilter's mates...I don't know..must be something about those lost hours wandering through fabric shops trying to develop an opinion, any opinion, about which fabric "...do I like". I just pick the blue one. It gets to you though, it just gets to you. Ahem, back to tools...Phil
You can get by without a jointer, and contrary to popular belief, a planer isn't restricted to just making wood thinner. With the proper sled, you can face joint wood with a planer. Or, you can face-joint using a router and a sled (see the current Wood Magazine cover article.
You can edge joint with a router, a straight-edge and a bearing-piloted straight bit. Much safer than trying to edge-joint a long board on a bench-top saw.
It is, IMHO, much more difficult to get by without a planer, unless you really like using hand planes!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
First I would buy a decent jack or smooth plane, learn how to hone the iron and correctly use it. If you buy a planer you can edge join some stock with it. You can edge join a single board or several at the same time thru the planer. The boards would have to be narrower than the height capacity of the planer, one side has to be STRAIGHT to begin with.This can be accomlished with the table saw and a straight edge screwed to the board.
The board then can be edge jointed on the planer. If you have several boards of the same height , run them together with the leading ends fastened with a clamp or even tape, this keeps them from rolling over. If you use a clamp, keep it low, well away from the cutterhead. Most single boards can be done the same way, run the board down the middle of the planer so the roller tension will be equal. If the board is too thin and will roll over, then temporarily fasten it to another board that is either the same height or lower. Hot glue sticks come in handy here.
mike
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