I’ve been into furniture making since elementary school. I started out self taught, but now have a formal education in industrial woodworking and fine furniture making. I have experience in both production environments and custom shops. I have a fully equipped workshop on my property and am ready to go. Where my strengths are lacking, I have a assistance from friends and family – i.e. the business end. I plan to work along side them and learn along the way as I believe it is important to learn this side of the business as well. Other then a mortgage I have zero personal debt, and zero business debt.
I feel like I am in a good position, but I’m stuck right now. I have precious little time to dedicate to projects. The last piece I built was done sporadically over a 6 months period. Obviously I’m not going to get anywhere that this rate. I barely have time to build, let alone market or advertise. It seems part time furniture making is a full time job. I put every productive minute I have into it, but is nowhere near enough. The only realistic way I can see this working is to cut back hours at work, however I cannot afford to do that.
I’m curious to know how others managed to get off the ground without burning out. I am wide open to suggestions and advice.
Replies
Getting Started
For me it was a craft first - business and the ability to make a living came afterwards -
SA
what do you mean
that it was a craft first?
there are a lot of good craftspeople that are making a decent living from their business
are you above being a craftsman now?
ron
Getting started?
Why in Gods name do so many people think that they can make a living at making furniture.
Robin here's how it works, before you start out you need to be indepently wealthy, and therefore you do not need to worry about paying the bills from woodwrking.
Any and all money you think you made from woodworking, goes back into the business, due to the fact that the business is so far in the hole that you can't possably afford to buy a new saw blade or for that matter afford get the old one sharpened.
Once you have spent as much money as I have about 100k you are entitled to free mental health therapy. Most of the time mental health services are billed on whats called a sliding scale. You pay based upon the amount of money you earn, seen as you are a wood artist now. You are free because you haven't made any money, as a matter of fact you are so far in the hole that you could be classified as a Chilaen Miner.
The next thing you absolutly MUST do before going any further is have Congress pass a law prohibiting any NON PROFESSIONAL woodworker from selling any kind of wood product or any other craft from their, home, garage, friends work shop or any other place that is not zone as a commercial building. Due to the fact that these so called HOBBY woodworkers keep flooding the market with rediculesly priced goods. They have ZERO knowledge of what it takes to run a Custom Furniture business in this hostile economy. How do they expect you to make a living when you have to pay for a commercial space for your shop. Seen as you are now a commercial customer to your utilities, you must now pay a higher rate for their services. Then there is that stupid thing about having to be insured, whats that called Liability insurance, oh by the way your Company vehicle can no longer be insured with the wifes mini van you know drive a commercial vehicle. As to the fact that you now drive a commercial vehicle, did you remember to tell the state that you need to chenge your tags to a commercial tag. They will make you change the name on your registration a well. Be careful at this point they may want to know hoe that vehicle was purchased by the business, this could lead to having to pay sale tax to the state to coplete the transaction. Did you say you sold it to the company for $1.00, they are liable to tell you that their books say that vehicle is worth lets say a conservative number like say $28,000.00 at a rate of what 8% lets say that works out to what $2240.00 WOW. And dont forget workers comp, they know down at the state you'll most likely have to hire some help. So there goes another big chunck of coin, did you remember to pay your contractors bond of $20,000.00
What was that you were asking about earning a living at woodworking or just starting a business.
Myself I worked my way up throught the trades with the good old fashioned apprenticeship program, and some how or the other I had built up a list of clients that has taken me since 1976.
Please excuse anu and a;; spellinf errors it's late at night
Robin I really didn't mean to pop your ballon, just think really hard before you make that decision, and please don't go under cutting just to get the work.
Taigert
Getting Started, in spite of all the naysayers
Taigert,
You may have just taken negativity to a new level.
I have always been amazed at people's ability to overcome difficulty.
Where there is a will there's a way.
If it were easy then anybody could do it.
When I started my fist cabinet shop in 1975 everybody said I was crazy and it would never work. Well I was almost an instant success and I made a good living and supported my family for nearly two decades.
This current chapter of my life finds me back in the shop endeavoring to become a full time professional furniture maker. It's a little slower getting going than my original attempt, but it's going. Fortunately I'm in demand in other related fields and am able to subsidize the shop for now as the demand for the shop work grows. More and more people are becoming aware of my woodworking abilities and the customer base keeps expanding. I think in another year I'll be full time.
Youth and enthusiasm are key ingredients for success. I have the enthusiasm anyway.
I've spent a lifetime developing my skills. Why would I want to retire when I just keep getting better? I'll hang up the shop apron when I'm no longer able to do the work.
Bret
You seem pissed
Taigert , A lot of what you said is true I know after 29 years in business as a one man shop .
But some of what you seem concerned about means little in reality , at least from my personal experience .
First off being in a commercial building or any particular type of shop has NOTHING to do with the quality the customer can expect . Your suggestion is unfounded .I'm not going to nit pik your whole message , like myself you may be weary from this great recession and simply angry , I don't blame you but don't confuse the issues that have caused our income to drop , it has little or nothing to do with hobby shops .
Speaking for myself I am a professional and have never lost a job nor bid against a hooby shop on a legitimit job honestly have you iost work to a hobby shop ? If so they must have done a good job of something .
Now , the harsh reality and one of my favorite sayings " Great things do not have to come from great places "
Don't ever think a great thing can not be produced in little more then a shed , it happens every day so please do not judge a maker by his things or his shop , no judge by his Works , then the conversation ends .
best regards and hang in there dusty,boxmaker
Craftsman
Sid,
You ask " Am I above being a craftsman" ???
No !!! - of course not - the business part for me is a burden - I'd much rather be in the shop than working at my desk.
To the original post : woodworking for me is in my thoughts 24 hours a day, the business is a part of it I must deal with to see that incoming funds pay bills -
SA
sometimes
one just has to bite the bullet and get out there and do it, have confidence in yourself that you can do it. time to stop moonlighting and cheating on your fellow woodworkers who are out there trying to do it legally.
it is only life. without it you are dead
ron
Don't quit your day job
Robin,
How can you start to make a living in WW without burning out? Well I don't think you can,
and I think burnout should be part of your buisness plan. Having a day job while starting
a side business after hours is tough. I'm doing what you're doing right now. So I know
what you're going though. Add family, home maintenance, and such, and your hands are full.
I suggest you plan on reaching a point in your WW business has grown where
working a fulltime day job and running your business is too much to handle. At that point reduce your
current day job hours if possible, or switch to a partime job to supliment the WW income. The feeling of burnout
is the sign that your overall workload needs to be reduced. You should plan on it, and know what to
do when it happends. Try to feel good about it as it is a sign of success in your new business.
At some point it will be time to make WW your day job. Think through the process and try to
figure out what will happen at each stage of growth. How the changes can effect your life.
And what you plan to do about the changes. Who will help when you're overloaded, How will you
cover medical insurance, mortgage, time at the kids soccer game? It's hard to think about vacations when you
have too much work, but downtime is needed too.
Getting help with the business end of WW is great. Get that help and learn from those who help you.
Learn about marketing. And plan time for it. You said you only have a mortgage, and owe nothing else.
But that alone could be worth hundreds of thousands of $$ over time. Refinace if it saves you money. Try to
lower the payment where posible. The lower your bills, the less you need to earn to get through the month.
These are some of the things I'm doing to get ready. The economy has postponed my burnout period. I
will be cutting back to a partime job with mortgage, medical, and retirement covered in 2 to 4 years max.
I hope my plan (and yours) works out.
GRW
I have nothing to add of value
and will probably never sell my work . . . but this, for me, is still a fascinating thread. A discussion about real woodworking and is what keeps me coming back to this forum.
on the other hand I am a late night woodworker , after a full time day job, or spend the night studying often until three am if I am following a sent. So a little bit like starting a second job when I get home.
OK here goes.
This will sound like complete fantasy and i don't blame you for having a good laugh but . . . I have found if I eliminate cheese from my diet when I need to go on less sleep I can go on three to five hours sleep a night for quite a while especially if the last hours of the day are on my feet at the bench rather than at the drawing board (where often I find myself sleeping with my nose smashed on the paper).
I will say it before anyone else: Notice I said at the BENCH not at a machine.
If I keep cheese in the diet . . . wham . . . I am snoring away on the couch by ten pm. Of coarse can't run like that for ever. The piper must eventually be paid. And the holidays without cheese ? Blasphemy ! OK if you aren't already under the table laughing go for it !
Pick A Road
You said it best , cut back on your paid at work hours and spend more time producing .
That's a choice that would require commitment on your part , you are now in the middle so to speak .
It's not easy when you do it full time , personally I could not support my family with only part time efforts and You maybe also.
You have to do a lot of woodworking to crack your nut per month , think about it , if your monthly personal expenses are say@ $4,000 , once you start a legit business your monthly expenses will go up more then you may realize .Lic ,state and local , gen lib ins , commercial van insurance ,business phone the list goes on and on and is different for each one of us.
Besides the fact that your monthly expenses will be more you will also have LOST your income from your job.
you would need to produce @12-18k per month before material and business costs to net your nut .
You already are giving room in your head to becoming burned out , before you start full time .
Just saying , maybe you should study things a bit deeper , tax rate ,no unemployment in slow times,no retirement ,no co, health insurance no paid vacation to name a few .
Time management and the balance of your life is indeed important , we need to not stop our lives activities to be consumed by our works , been there got the hat .
best regards dusty,boxmaker
Been working on that
Dusty,
You're right. It's different for everyone. And yes, I have looked at evrything you wrote about.
My shop and home will be mortgage free before I make a move. The retirement issue will
be covered without adding cash after I leave the day job. Medical is covered. And my sweet wife
will continue to add income to our household. Kids will be grown soon. In collage now, and yes
collage cost will already be covered. Other expenses have been considered, and action
has already been taken to reduce some future cost.
I'm going to have some surprises. Some things I wish I though of before. But I'm trying to cover
everything I can think of ahead.
Thoughts, opinions, and ideas are welcome.
Thanks,
GRW
Thoughts, opinions, and ideas are welcome.
Figure out a way to educate the public to the value of real furniture built to last with resale value and superior beauty etc., and we all will be set to just be craftspeople and have a good life with more work than we can do. Maloof did it. John Q public will buy a car on credit and it will be worn out about the time it is paid for with tens of thousands of dollars spent but nothing of value to sell at the end of it, collectable cars being the exception in some cases. If that person took the train to work instead and bought our real furniture with the savings wouldn't that just be smurfy ?
Maybe even I would attempt the occasional commercial sortie.
Just got to get em to see that it is a good investment as well as more fun.
When you learn how please tell me .
Been There, Still there
Several years ago I got bit with the furniture bug and wanted nothing more than the romantic life of producing fine custom furniture in a one man shop, fine shavings curling off my handplane as the sunlight streamed through the skylights in my 2,000 square foot shop. After working for a couple of years in antique restoration and digesting every book and magazine I could find I decided to do the unthinkable. We had just had our first child, I wasn't making enough money, and I decided to take a chance. I didn't want my dream to take decades to come to fruition, I didn't want to take it slow, and before I'd even built my first piece of furniture I purchased a small shop's worth of tools and opened my business. For the first year I did nothing but repair and restore furniture, but with my tools I was able to replicate parts that most shops had to outsource and became quite good at it. With my reasonable prices, friendly demeanor, and committment to absolute quality I stayed in business against all odds and quickly got my first couple of furniture commissions. Most of my business came word of mouth, so customer satisfaction was essential. Because of my inexperience it took me twice as long to do everything, and often multiple attempts, but once I did something I mastered it and my craft improved. For the next three years I scrapped and fought and became one of the better craftsmen in the area. And even though it meant working 6 days a week for 14 hours a day and barely making enough to support the family I still held on.
Of course reality eventually set in and I discovered the wonderful world of taxes, accounting, regulation, and debt. The recession was more or less a deathblow, but in the end it was the debt I could never surmount. You're in a much better position than I was since you own your own stuff and have no debt. KEEP IT THAT WAY. It's not about your balance sheet, it's all about your cashflow each month. Right now I've taken a couple of years off to recover while I work at a cabinet shop. I take side jobs for extra money to pay off my tools and upgrade to new ones and I'm taking the time to expand my skills and work finish my education. Never forget that even though you're an artist and craftsman, you are a businessman first.
Things I would do differently:
1) Stay out of debt.
2) Work out an actual real business plan in as much detail as possible. There are books and software programs that can help with this. Understand the financial side of things, the accounting cycle, payroll, etc.
3) Have firmly established what kinds of work you will take and what you will pass on. The temptation when you're desperate is to take on anything no matter how crazy. I got myself into a lot of losing situations that way, restoring pieces that by all rights should have been burned. Establish what kind of styles you are comfortable with, whether you do built in's, trim carpentry, etc. Believe me, you'll get calls for all kinds of crap.
4) Know how to bid jobs, and do it thoroughly. I always underestimated materials and never added up the full cost of a job until it bit me in the butt. Even though you will probably have to charge low in this economy, don't try and compete with furniture stores. You'll lose every time.
5) Keep your cashflow positive. If you can start from home and miss the expense of a commercial shop, do it. I never had one person go somewhere else because I didn't have a storefront - just make some disgruntled joke about the bad economy nowadays and they'll understand. A good portfolio is more important than anything.
6) Master your craft. I'm not saying that you have to be perfect in everthing, but be versatile. Don't think you have to M&T everything when the customer's only paying for dowells. Know how to be fast and efficient, to make drawers 5 different ways, to quickly mill and size and join all the basic forms - case pieces, side tables, dining tables, cabinets, etc. Don't neglect the finishing side either, that can take almost as long as building the piece if you don't have things figured out. Have plenty of creations in your portfolio and take the time to enter furniture contests and craft fairs to gain exposure and hopefully recognition. Get known in your area as much as possible by talking to designers and the like about your work. Make friends with other more experience furniture builders who may be willing to pass customers to you if their budget is too low or it's the wrong kind of work. I traded work with other guys all the time who were backed up, or not interested in the project.
I know this is a long post, but I really do wish you the best of luck. It was a hard few years, but to me it was worth it just to live the dream for a while. And after I get my act together, who knows, I may just go after it again. :-)
I hear you
I know what you mean - woodworking used to be my greatest love, but somedays it's just another damn job. I've gone through period where I didn't even want to set foot in the shop. At least all those orders gave me experience, and now that I'm only doing this part time I'm hoping to get my hobby back. :-)
Robin,
I don't mean to offend any of the respondees to your post, but most folks fail or suffer in any business because they are romantically in love with what they do. They will also find a reason for lack of success. Passion is different; it drives one to do great things. The romantic spends too much time dreaming of success but let's the heart get in the way.
I have owned a few successful businesses in my time and I am still passionate about my current one. I spend on the order of 60 hours a week at it not because I have to but because I really can't wait to get there in the morning. I also can't wait to get home to my shop for another 25-30 hours a week. I don't work wood for money.
You can be successful in a woodworking business as are many. Some are fantastically successful and they all have a different story of how it came to be. My guess is the really successful ones are great talents, create demand through design and craftmanship but of above all figured out how to get noticed and paid a price that represents their worth.
Most business are started with a dream. Those that have only money in mind will not do so well. Those that create demand for great products will not have to worry about the money.
First find an under fulfilled niche for your work. Most businesses fail because they surf in the 'sea of sameness'. Following another apparent successful business model may or may not work. If you look at the really successful names in woodworking, they all fulfill a special niche in the market place.
The absolute key to success is to find a market for your product before you give up your day job. If you are not willing to do the marketing well, don't bother going any further. Opportunities abound for good marketing particularly with advancements in the internet over recent years.
You'll have to make something to offer in your marketing. It better be something not commonly available. There are great table makers everywhere. If you want to make tables, make it a 'wow' project that we have never seen before.
In the beginning you will wear all the hats. As soon as possible, give up some hats. Hire a bookkeeper if you hate bookkeping and you spend more than a couple hours a week at it. If your woodworking skills bring in a hundred dollars an hour and you can hire a bookkeper for $30 dollars an hour pay the bookkkeeper; not in-house, there are plenty available working for 100 businesses at the same time.
Don't take on any more debt than you can handle when sales are half of normal. The banks don't forgive half your payment when sales fall in half. At the same time don't be afraid to borrow if it increases productivity or quality; just be smart about it.
Charge a price that equals you skill set and product quality. Don't take a job at less than full price; there is no sense in subsidizing your customers. Folks that buy high end wood working products buy with their heart, not there head. They will pay any price if they perceive value and the product makes them feel good about ownership.
I could go on but if you are sincere about what you propose, my thoughts may be a starting point.
Success is all about making it happen, not worrying about what might go wrong. If you are still youthful, do it. The worst that can happen is you will have to start over.
Well spoken, sir.
I only wish that I'd had that advice when I was getting started. Things might have turned out differently. :-)
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