Okay, anyone out there got any ideas on this one:
I’m using a modified version of the Arts and Crafts finish proposed by Jeff Jewitt in FWW #157. In my case QS white oak is dyed with Transtint dissolved in water, then a very thin padding of SealCoat (dewaxed shellac, 1 lb cut) over that. All good so far. I couldn’t locate any of the standard stains that JJ mentions but he does recommend using something with Gilsonite to pop the pores. Sherwin-Williams sells Gilsonite toner by itself and I can get that here, so I did. I diluted it about 6:1 in paint thinner for a “wipe on – wipe off” toner. Then amber shellac topcoat. Sample pieces look dynamite!
Now the problem: it didn’t work quite so well on the actual pieces. I’m finishing before assembly because this blanket chest has dozens of pieces; rails, stiles, panels, etc. and too many little nooks and crannys when assembled. The pieces came from several different boards (but all QS white oak). The finish works great on some of the pieces, but on others the gilsonite wash literally crawls out of the pores and leaves them white as my pasty legs. (fight the visual). I have a sense that the recalcitrant pieces are noticably heavier (more dense) then the “co-operative” ones.
I think I’m going to have to use dark wax to deal the pores since multiple coats have not solved the problem. I don’t think this is a surface tension problem since the Gilsonite is in paint thinner and not water, so there should be minimal surface tension (if I remember my chemistry). Also, it does appear the wash gets into the pores but then sneaks back out in front of my very eyes. All this happens will the wash is still wet, but drying so no shellac topcoat yet.
Finally, no, I’m not using hallocinogenic solvents.
Any ideas? Anyone know of deposits in some oak pores that rejects finish?
Steve Warburton
Replies
On the pieces that are rejecting your color; try giving the pores a light scrubbing with a small brass or bronze brush. Blow the pores out with compressed air if you have it and try it again.
Let me know how you do.
Thanks Peter,
Okay I'll give it a shot in AM and let you know what happens.
Steve
Okay, tried brushing and blowing (sounds like the open sequence of Saturday Night Fever), and it didn't seem to do the trick. Here's a pic of the issue. The sample on the right is working as I had hoped, the one on the left is recalcitrant.
Hi Dusty,
Sherwin Williams says paint thinner is okay as a solvent. Thier Gilsonite is primarily intended to be added to standard stains to increase thier ability to bring out grain, so it's not a typical toner. And it worked fine in my samples and much of the wood for the final piece. But I'll try cutting some with lacquer thinner which is also listed as an acceptable solvent and see what happens with that.
Give up? Heck no!
cheers, Steve
Follow up for those considering the Gilsonite approach I tried: lacquer thinner did not improved holding power in pores. Also, on the more porous pieces, I found that hours later, some of the very dark gilsonite stain had came back from pores and left little black specks all over the surface, much like an oil finish can do on very porous wood. I think if I were to do it again, I'd rub it on rather than using a brush to keep the applied volume down. Perhaps thin it less as well, maybe 4 to 1.
Cheers and happy finishing (if that's not an oxymoron)
Steve
Why not sift from the Gilsonite approach, to use of a pigment only stain, to color the pores. You will have to experiment with how thoroughly to seal in the dye step, or perhaps even to darken the dye slightly, but the larger, heavier pigment particles in a oil/varnish binder ought to stay in place. With the pigments chosen well the effect should be quite similar. I'd expect burnt umber would be in the substitute pigment.
Hi Steve,
This is kind of what I was trying to do, but wanted to cut out the middleman. JJ suggested a stain that used gilsonite as the dark pigment. I got the impression that was because gilsonite is REALLY dark. I couldn't find any of the pigment-only stains he recommened around where I live so went with the gilsonite. In retrospect, I think your idea is the better one. It is important for this method to eschew a stain that contain dye as well as pigment. Now I'm stuck with a gallon of the blackest black goop I've ever seen. It makes roofing tar look pale.
Jeez I hate finishing.
I'm on to the shellac topcoat now and it's going well. I hope to be able to recover the open pores with dark wax when I'm all done. They're not huge but to my eye, they don't cut it.
Cheers,
Steve W.
Your dark wax will likely take care of the problem.
Not too hard to make a pigment only stain and the materials are available in any art supply store. For pigment artists oils work fine--avoid the lowest priced student grade paints because they contain fillers, sometimes including wax. Then it is just a matter of slowing mixing oil into the oil paint to get it a bit more fluid, then add varnish to give is a firmer binding, and then thin as needed with paint thinner. This material might skin over in the can, or separate more readily in storage, but in things that count it will work as well as commercial stains--and you know the pigments, not some times fanciful stain names. PIgment with larger particle pigment will behave a bit differently than the gilsonite, but will likely get the job done.
Funny isn't it that the products--dyes and pigment only stain--that actually make control of the finishing process easier are hard to find, while combination products--even such awful products that try to mix stain and top coat in one can, are available just about on every corner.
Steve,
Your last paragraph really says it all. No wonder so many find finishing a chore. Add to that all the mixutres, recipes, opinions and it's not surprising confusion and or frustration often prevails.
Steve,
The asphaltum base stain you made would in my mind be better as a glaze.
Sorry to be late to the party here but I feel when the pore scrubbing did not satisfy your eye, I would have suggested using a dilute paste filler. Mixing Van Dyke brown and Burnt Umber 3-1 or 4-2 would have made a nice deep brown. To just color the pores as opposed to filling them, thin the paste filler to a viscosity's like light cream. Apply across the grain then with the grain and remove all excess from the surface. It will go pretty quickly.
This will color the pores far better than wax. The wax may get in there, but I think you'll still see some uncolored pores with wax alone.
Finishing takes time to learn. Consider this another notch in the belt.
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