For the last few years, I’ve been building A & C furniture of QS white oak. The finish I’ve been using was in a FWW article sometime ago – analine dye, shelac sealer, stain and then, poly. I’ve never tried for a glass smooth finish.
I’m going to build a couple of night stands – one oak and one walnut – and would like to “upgrade” the finish on the top. I’m after smoothness not shine.
Anyone have any advice on a glass smooth finish on the oak? I want to preserve the ray pattern of the oak but really fill the pores.
Any advice?
JET of TN
Replies
JETofTN
the process requires a great deal of sanding..
Sandiing well is an art. Like wood working you start with a relativly coarse grit and move to finer grit with each sanding..
Except you start with something like 220 and work up towards 4000 grit.
The first coats are critical..
What you''ll want to do is sand the first time "til you have a flawless satin finish devoid of any pits or orange peel..
I use a light mist of water and then squeege off the water with a sharped edged new rubber sanding block.. Actually what I use is those plastic spreaders used to spread body filler.. Use only a new one and use it to squeege off the water..
Any pits or orange peel will quickly show up
When sanding always use a block, a rubber block if sanding on curved surfaces a wooden block is sanding on flat surfaces..
never use your fingers!
Never, never never!
Never!
Your fingers are curved and they will leave grooves when they apply pressure unevenly. I like those 3M sanding sponges.. Wrap whatever grit you are going to use around them and sand away!
Once you've gotten a uniform satin look to the finish stop!
switch to the next finer grit and remove the 220 sanding scratches, then switch and remove the 320 sanding scratches, the 400 the 600 etc.. once you reach 4000 grit it's time to consier if you need to polish it. If so, do the same thing as you did with the sandpaper, start with a relatively coarse paste and move to the extremley fine stuff.
Now it's time to wax,,
French polish will produce the absolute glossiest finish but you must allow a lot of time to do the job well.. Your arm will definately get work out!
Oak is an open grained wood like mahogany. If you want a really smooth glass-like finish, you'll need to fill the grain. There are several ways to do this. You can use a commercial grain filler (oil based or water based). Here's the drill:
Follow a sanding schedule moving from coarse to fine sandpaper to remove all of the imperfections from the surface. The finer sandpaper removes the marks left by the coarser grits. Wipe down the piece with mineral spirits and then a tack cloth to remove the dust. I've found that the trick to using a grain filler is to put a wash coat of dewaxed shellac on the wood before you apply the filler. It makes it easier to wipe off.
I stongly recommend experimenting with the grain filler on a scrap piece of oak so you get a feel for how fast it dries. When you're ready, paint the filler liberally on the wood making sure to get it in the pores and let it it sit for a few minutes. You need to watch it because if you wait too long, it's murder to get off. (If you take it off too soon it may come out of the pores, but I've made both kinds of mistakes and it's a lot easier to apply another coat than try to sand off one you left on too long.) As soon as it starts to haze over, remove the excess by wiping a piece of burlap across the grain. If you wipe with the grain it takes the filler out of the pores. Try to get as much of the filler off the surface of the wood as you can. Then wait at least two days for it to dry and shrink. Then sand lightly to remove any of the filler that remains on the surface. Now you can apply whatever topcoat you like.
The other alternative is to French polish the piece. This process fills the pores with pumice in addition to applying a great-looking shellac finish, but it's a lot of work and you might want to experiment with a smaller project first.
Jet,
As the other posters mentioned, you'll need to fill the grain on the oak (probably on the walnut also, as it is moderately open-grained).
About a year ago, I built a cook book book case for my wife out of red oak. To fill the grain, I used BLO and #4 pumice. The technique I used was to flood the board with BLO and then add a couple of teaspoons of pumice. Using a rag, I then worked the pumice into the pores, wiping mainly with the grain. I let it "dry" for about 10 - 15 minutes (humidity here in NM is around 10% - 15% in the summer when I did this; you may need more drying time, depending on your weather conditions), and then wiped the excess of, going cross-grain. I then let it cure for about a week, and repeated. After that, I put a coat of 100% pure tung oil on, let that cure for about 3 days, and then repeated with a tung oil/resin varnish mix 4 times. Final step was a couple of coats of wax. Surface of boards came out very smooth to the touch and quite glass-like. A lot of work and fairly time-consuming, but the end result was worth the time and effort.
Hope this helps.
Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
Greetings,
The easiest and best "color" filler I've found is Watco oil. Simply wet sand with the oil, this will create a slurry of oil and dust that will quickly fill the pores and dries hard.
Then follow with an oil/varnish mix. After about six coats wet sand and apply one more coat. My mix dries dust free in about twenty minutes and I apply three coats in a day.
Don. Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
i have a question about this technique.
when you wet sand, do you then wipe off excess? or wait till "slurry" dries bumpy, then sand? ever added small amounts of poly to the mix for durability?thanks
Greetings,
I just barely wet a manageable area with the oil, wet sand and scrape the sandpaper for additional filler if needed, sand again and then wipe the area and move on..
The slurry will dry as hard as cement so you should wipe across the grain once the grain is filled.
And I should mention I do this after I have applied a coat of oil and let it dry a day. This will "seal" the wood.
With this method you will have a glass smooth, totally filled surface ready for top coating even with an open pore wood such as oak.
Cheers, Don.
Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
Edited 1/17/2007 7:02 pm by donkondra1
thanks don!and how do you feel about the oil/poly mixing? for a handrail, not nice furniture?btw....went to your site...beautiful work!
Greetings,
For a handrail? Hummmmm......
In a private residence, I would say yes.
So far my best torture test is a dining table in ash for a family with two small children. They used the table for all their meals. The top had six coats on it.
After six years the client called for the formula to renew the finish. All it required was a good scuff sanding and another three coats.
No need to strip the finish and the smell did not drive them out of the house :)
Cheers, Don. Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
thanks don!
James,
Has any of the pumice in the oak pores begun to turn white?
Pumice is used with shellac in french polishing and with other finishes to abrade the wood and produce a slurry of micro-fine wood particles, finish and some pumice which becomes the pore filler.
Even when the filler is mostly the finely abraded wood, it can happen that months or years later the filled pores start to turn white as the pumice, which looks transparent when wet with finish, begins to separate itself from the finish resin.
You've described a filler that is almost all pumice (and linseed oil). I would be concerned with its eventually showing the tell-tale white appearance. I hope it doesn't!
Rich
Rich,
So far, there has been no color change. We'll see what happens as time passes.Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
In the first place I don't think that most projects made of oak are conducive of a 'glass-like' finish, walnut, yes.
The easiest way to do it is brush on a couple coats of sanding sealer, let dry between coats and see how 'flat' it is. Do another coat if you need it, and its easy because sanding sealer dries quickly, sanding between coats with white (no-load) 220. Using a cork faced sanding block is good advice.
Then apply your finish sanding w/220 between coats, 320 after the next to last coat. Then a wiped on thin coat. Use 0000 steel wool if you have any dust that needs to be removed and then rub-it out with pumice and then rottenstone, and wax.
pins
Greetings,
The sanding sealer has no where near the solids content compared to the slurry of oil and dust, multiple coats might but why make it harder than it has to be to prep the surface....
And a finish of sanding sealer and wax is not a finish IMO.
Cheers, Don. Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
Apparently you did not read my post, or you didn't understand what I said. I never said that sanding sealer was a finish.I said after applying the sanding sealer to fill the pores then: "Then apply your finish sanding w/220 between coats, 320 after the next to last coat. Then a wiped on thin coat. Use 0000 steel wool if you have any dust that needs to be removed and then rub-it out with pumice and then rottenstone, and wax."If this is not clear to you then please advise as to what part of my post you do not understand and I will do my very best to further explain what I said.I stand by recommendations.pins
Greetiings,
You are correct, I did misunderstand, me bad...
"Then apply your finish sanding...." A comma after "finish" would have got my attention :)
I'm curious to know why you would bother with the pumice and rottenstone though?
After wet sanding before the final thin coat you have or should have a pretty darn good finish...
Cheers, Don.
PS. I still maintain that the wet sanding with oil is more effective and less work than the sanding sealer :)
Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
Edited 1/17/2007 8:03 pm by donkondra1
Correct, I should have use a comma. Normally after the final wiped on coat I just use 0000 steel wool if I have any dust or other crap that I have to remove. I do not wet sandThen I use rottenstone with a 50/50 mineral spirits and paraffin oil to get the 'glass-like' finish and then wax. This is what works for me and I include for your edification a photo of a 4 x 8 table of poplar that I made for a client. But you should note that this is not a 'flat' surface because it was hand planed. But the surface is like glass nevertheless.pins
Greetings,
I think we've gotten a little off topic here, JETofTN is looking for smooth, not shiny.
He should have enough information now to improve on his finishing schedule.
FYI this is a walnut and maple side table with an oil/varnish finish.
Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
Pins,
Was that a home made drum sander I saw in the background of your 4 x 8 table of poplar picture?
KB
Edited 1/21/2007 12:28 am ET by Keef
KB,Yes.pins
Use an oil based pore filler (natural color) following the directions on the can. Let dry overnight sand lightly with 150. Stain to whatever color you like. Then your choice of top coats. With a low or flat sheen it is not necessary to get a "glass" like smoothness as the grain will not show as much.
I would recommend pore filling all open grained woods to give a smoother finish and save time in sanding between coats. With a good pore filling, a "glass" smooth finish, can be achieved without 10 coats of finish and a long final rub out.
Steve Nearman
Fredericksburg, VA
Furniture Restoration Service
Quality restorations and repairs for over 35 years!
(540) 371-5566
http://FurnitureRepair.net/
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled