Veneering will be a new WW direction for me. I want to use it in the making of small boxes and perhaps other small items, so the surfaces to be veneered will not be more than one square foot at most; often smaller.
Hammer veneering looks appropriate – but that technique seems to demand hide glue. My question is:
Does hammer veneering require hot hide glue or can it be successful with the cold brown glues now sold as an alternative to the hot stuff?
I read that hammer veneering works by pressing away the excess glue from an initially glue-heavy application, so that the thin layer of glue left in between the hammer-pressed veneer and substrate dries quickly because thinner layers of hide glue dries (evaporates the water) much faster than the the thick layer, whilst the initial thick layer of glue stays liquid whilst the hammer does it’s pressing of veneer to substrate.
But do the brown glues that are used cold dry as quickly as hot hide glue? Presumably the hot hide glue. once pressed to a thin layer, dries quickly not just because of the water evaporation but because of the cooling from hot to cold …..?
Any advice or, better, experience of hammer veneering with cold hide/brown glues will be gratefully received. I am poised ready with the Titebond version of cold hide glue and a proper veneer hammer.
Lataxe
Replies
Cold hide glue takes too long to cure for hammer veneering. It's a technique that was designed with hot hide glue.
It is the transition from liquid to gel phase that allows the technique to work. Once the glue gels, it is pretty well stuck. 192 gram strength glue is preferred because it gives just the right amount of time to "play" with the glue line. Higher gram strength glues gel faster.
While cold glue is not a candidate for hammer veneering, it can be used if the panel can be kept in clamps for a few days. It requires the water in the glue line to evaporate or absorb out before it becomes solid. Until then it will loosen up.
I'm about to hit you with the good stuff on the FWW homepage! Four-part hide glue series with Patrick Edwards.
Ha ha - I now have the choice of making yet another set of cauls, this time for pressing veneer on to substrates with my cold "hide" glue that seemingly isn't really hide glue at all .... or finding a glue pot then stinkin' up the hoose with it's primeval pong.
I confess ... the hide-stink will bring back memories of schooldays and being abused by a woodworking teacher who seemed to make mostly boy-beating cudgels of very hard wood. Such memories are, if not pleasant, interesting to recall.
Also, the glue-hammering process has a certain appeal, again to do with that primitive process of working wood. "Don't need no stinkin' vacuum press". The gluepot stinks more-better! :-)
Lataxe
So, how to heat proper hide glue....
In Britain there are only suspect iron glue pots of the traditional double boiler variety. Suspicious as in ancient & probably cracked. (They seem to be sold as ornaments).
There's one metal double pot of a modern design sold by a Veneer & Marquetry dealer - £53, no included heater.
Would I be best off building my own with a small portable electric hot plate and a couple of kitchen containers of aluminium and/or heat-proof glass? What do you other hot gluers out there use?
Lataxe
Ironically I just watched a video this morning from the guy who makes Old Brown Glue and he covered that exact process! It’s on the home page of fine Woodworking.com this morning. I use that glue and just warm it up out of the fridge when I’m going to use it and keep it in a glass of hot water while using.
One more tidbit is that I actually keep mine warm in a tiny crock pot that is meant for pot pourri or hot party dip - made by crock pot brand but I think you’ll find several makers of similar items. I just put water in it and let the bottle sit in there while using.
The ladywife also suggested a kitchen/cookery implement as a glue pot - a porringer, bain-marie or double-boiler thing. There are various models out there but I managed to find a small aluminium version 6 inches in diameter and each pot of the two 4 inches high (about 7 inches when the top one (for glue) nests in the bottom one (for the hot water). Fifteen of the pounds sterling.
Another twenty two pounds sterling for a wee electric hot plate of cast iron with a thermostatic control & knob as well as two handles to pick it up with. Finally a stainless steel meat thermometer for four pounds sterling.
Not too costly, then; and hopefully well-able to deal with the stinkin' glue. In Blighty we can buy Liberon hide glue in pearl form, which seems to be that 192 gm stuff the bloke in the video you mentioned recommends.
Only the nose-peg to buy too, now :-)
Lataxe
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