Replies

1. 
   Rich14 | Jan 07, 2005 07:45pm | #1

   Chad,

   What glue? Your description is a classic case of a failed joint due to lower than adequate ambient temperature. Sorry, but the glue has failed and you will need to open the joints, clean them and re-glue.

   Rich

2. 
   jackplane | Jan 07, 2005 08:35pm | #2

   yup, sorry to say.

3. 
   JohnWW | Jan 07, 2005 08:35pm | #3

   Chad,

   The white color is a classic sign of PVA glue having frozen before it set.  The joints probably have little strength.  You should also be aware that the Titebond (PVA) types of glues shouldn't be allowed to freeze in the bottle, it doesn't do them any good.

   John W.

4. 
   HowardAcheson | Jan 07, 2005 09:57pm | #4

   PVA adhesive should never be used below 55 degrees. The wood, the glue and the air must be above 55--65 degrees is better as at 55, the adhesive will take much longer to dry. Even the new PVA Titebond III goes no lower than 47 degrees. You will have to totally remove all the vestiges of the frozen adhesive if you want to get a good strong joint when you reglue.

   Doesn't the label on the glue give you info on working temperatures?

   Howie.........
5. 
   forestgirl | Jan 07, 2005 10:07pm | #5

   I know it might go against your maleness, Chad, but remember to read the directions, LOL!!!  Howie's right about 55* except for the new Titebond III, which is good down to 47*.  Freezing temps are a no-no-no-no.

   Dennis and I have cooked up a few ways to glue in a cold shop, one of which involves using halogen lamps to warm up the stock and the area.  There's also the electric blanket or tent-with-a-light approach.  If I don't feel like warming up the shop with the woodstove, and it's a small piece, I just bring it in the house.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   cft353 | Jan 07, 2005 11:22pm | #6

   "I know it might go against your maleness, Chad, but remember to read the directions, LOL!!! "

   Don't be silly, ForestGirl. I'm a guy, we know these things instinctively...I knew the glue (Elmer's yellow) would take longer to cure at lower temps, and I wasn't sure the temp inside my shop was below freezing. I have learned, the hard way, not to leave the glue bottle in the shop because even if it doesn't freeze it gets rubbery and unusable from the cold.

   (sigh) 'K. I'll just have to pass the added labor and material costs onto my customer (me).

   And who's Dennis, anyway? Does FG, the girl of my dreams, already have a man? Oh, cruel fate!

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 08, 2005 07:50pm | #14

   Ooops, don't get me in trouble with Dennis' wife (not to mention my husband, Nick) by calling him my man!  Too funny.

   Watch the bi-lines here, you'll see his moniker.  A long time "Knothead" who's shop is up north from me in some much colder country than my Puget Sound.  They got the 4" of snow I was hoping to wake up to this morning, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Jellyrug | Jan 08, 2005 12:21am | #7

   Butane light in a tent sounds OK, so does a wood stove.

   But how do you fire up an electric blanket out in the Forest?

   Sorry, but my maleness, or was it madness, could not resist the temptation.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 08, 2005 01:22am | #8

   I could post some kind of snark based on male being an anagram of lame, but since I'm a fellow male, I won't.

1. 
   tms | Jan 08, 2005 01:52am | #9

   Possum Club Members,Repeat after me:I'm a man, and I can change, ...if I have to, ...I guess.Tom

1. 
   cft353 | Jan 08, 2005 03:58am | #10

   "I'm a man, and I can change, ...if I have to, ...I guess" - though where I'll get the money for the operation I just don't know...

2. 
   tms | Jan 08, 2005 06:10am | #11

   Gee Chad,I think that you're probable closer to Canada than I am. I thought you would have got this.http://www.redgreen.com/Tom

3. 
   cft353 | Jan 08, 2005 06:53am | #12

   I don't watch "RedGreen" because I live it! lol

2. 
   forestgirl | Jan 08, 2005 07:52pm | #15

   A woodstove in a tent?  Hmmmmmm, hadn't thought about that!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

6. 
   hammer1 | Jan 08, 2005 07:41pm | #13

   Did you use Titebond II? It will leave a weird white residue in some circumstances. I was testing a raised panel with it. I just chucked the panel outside on the wood pile. It had been sanded and shaped. The next day, the glue joints showed the chalky white substance at the glue lines. The panel was left outside for 6 months, it has a 2" belly in it now but the glue joints are holding tight. Freezing isn't a good thing for your glue. Water acts as a solvent and should disperse, it won't if frozen.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 08, 2005 07:55pm | #16

   "...Titebond II? It will leave a weird white residue in some circumstances."  Yeah, like being too cold.

   Great testing regimen, LOL!  "If it can take that, it can take anything," right?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   hammer1 | Jan 08, 2005 10:20pm | #17

   My testing methods aren't completely,(remotely), scientific but they can expose problems that I want to avoid. It was in July and we actually get above freezing for a few weeks around that time. The residue must have been caused by the dew. I expected some joint failure but it hasn't happened and the white stuff eventually washed off. I wanted to see how the Titebond II would stand up to exposure, I'm impressed. The solid panel is still solid, larger and it will go around a 36" diameter. The plywood panel did not fair as well, the solid wood edge moldings separated from the plywood even though they were applied with a tight T&G. Dissimilar materials.You may have seen some pictures of the project I posted over at Breaktime. The job started with a set of staircases. A month or so after installing, the landings and winders shrunk, leaving big gaps. The next phase of the job was making and installing wainscot. The job circumstances required raised panels that were about 22" wide. After the stair movement, I did not want the panels to cause anymore trouble. I used a method that I hadn't used for years, making the raised panels out of plywood. The first time I can remember using that method was before my 30 year old daughter was born. I worked for Architectural Woodcraft Corp. and many others employees in the shop helped out on the project. These cabinets make a TV appearance every four years when Democratic Presidential hopefuls speak from the Senate chambers in NH. It really makes for a stable panel.I'll see if I can post some dial-up size pics. I haven't been too good at that yet. Infranview doesn't work for mac's. Hope you don't mind me practicing.
   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

   
1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 09, 2005 12:35am | #18

   Good job on the pics, Hammer, especially when hampered in the software department.  Re: your testing method -- Who needs "scientific" when you can use "way worse than the real world"??  That problem with the staircase must have been frustrating.  I can't even imagine being skilled enough and brave enough to do that kind of work for someone else.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)