glue squeezeout on proud tenon of thru mortise and tenon
TommyColeman
| Posted in General Discussion on
Hello all. I am making a trestle table and have been mulling over something that i’ve never encountered before. The trestle rails are going to be attached to the leg assembly using a wedged thru m & t with the tenon protruding about 3/16″. Does anyone know of a strategy that I can use to prevent the protruding end of the tenon from becoming too glue stained to accept finish evenly? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Replies
Why not make them a bit too long and cut off the excess (along with the glue) afterwards?
When glueing the tenon, do not apply glue to the last 1/4 of an inch (the part of the tenon that will protrude). Do apply a generous amount to the remainder of the tenon. Do not apply glue in the mortise. As you push the tenon throught the mortise, friction will push the the squeeze-out back and away from the protruding portion of the tenon. The proud portion of the tenon should emerge from the mortise glue-free.
Tommy,
Do you need glue? I just made a wall cabinet using wedged through m & t joinery. I put a saw kerf through the end of the tenon to accept a tapered expansion wedge. Once I drove the wedges home it became rock solid without glue. That's the beauty of the joint.
On trestle tables I've used joinery with a tapered wedge that fits through a mortise that is put through the tenon where it extends through the mortise of the table leg but it requires the tenon to protrude through the mortise a few inches. This is also a very solid connection requiring no glue and which allows for easy dismantling and re-assembly.
For un-wedged tenons, just put glue on the cheeks of the tenon being careful not to get glue on the portion that would stick through the other side.
You may already know all this but here is a couple of rough examples from my shop.
Bret
bret,
don't think i have ever seen that much of a "split" in the wedged end grain before. also the way you have oriented it, is new to me. very interesting. have you done this for a while now?
is that good old home depot pine you're working with? i very much enjoy working with that stuff. thanks for posting.
eef
Eef,
I just ran the end of the tenon over the table saw with a thin kerf blade. I'm not sure where I got the pine. I'm always adopting orphan wood where ever I find it and I'm not above begging for it. That pine was probably left over from someone's project and was in my bone pile. Love the smell, don't like the gum. It was challenging to chop those mortises through because it's so soft. I kept trying to get my chisel sharper. The other photo is a workbench tressle made out of left over glu-lam beam ends.
Bret
Normally when I do a through tennon I just put glue on the tennon as has already been mentioned. If you feel that you need to glue both surfaces, you could pre finish the end of the tennon and then wipe off the glue while it is still wet.
IMHO pre finish the end of the tenon is great idea ( if we know the final finish to use before assembly, or at least know wether it would be either water based or oil base finish). I've tried this after I read this reply.., and it did work. Saving me the trouble of scraping.
Thanks gpssam.
Bret, i don't feel comfortable not glueing it...it is not "keyed" as in your bottom photo (all joints are cut). I do like the idea of not applying glue to the mortise, think I may try that....any other suggestions? Joint should be plenty strong with glue applied to tenon only?
Why not make them a bit too long and cut off the excess (along with the glue) afterwards?
David Ring
I second this suggestion.
I am no expert, although I do question some of the responses here. I feel like this thread is about how to glue a tenon without getting glue on the tenon.
On a well cut joint (snug fitting is what I shoot for) how much affect will the glue have on the joint if you only put glue on the tenon then squeegee it off as you pass it through the mortise?
When I glue through M&Ts, I put glue on the mortise and the tenon, then as a precaution I will take the brush and drag it over the edges of the mortise where the tenon will enter,,,in order to squeegee the excess glue off the brush as so the tenon will drag it across the walls off the mortise while being forced through.
As David suggested go longer and trim or pare to final fit . this can be achieved with a chisel / rabbit pane /shoulder plane or a block of wood (the thickness you want the tenon to protrude) and a Japanese pull saw.
My question to the suggestions above is how do you know when the joint has enough glue? If all your glue is hanging off the butt cheeks of the joint then what is actually holding the joint and how long will it last.? I want to see it on the butt cheeks as well as the through end of the mortise, cleaning it up is the easy part.
David's suggestion is pure common sense.
Tom
Tom,
You are just as qualified to make comments as anyone else here.
I see by your photo that you have were privileged to have met Sam Maloof. I too had such an honour when I attended a chair building seminar he taught at the U. of WA.
Back to the thread, I am not trying to downplay the importance and strength of glue. In most joinery it is of course vital. With the examples I provided in my previous post I was merely offering up a couple of joints that do not need glue. These examples are "rock solid" and I would defy anybody to get those tenons out of the mortises without first removing the wedges.
I think this type of joinery appeals to me as a result of my work in timber framing. No glue in any of that stuff, just dowels or wedges and a lot of thought put into what the wood will do when it shrinks. Cabinetmaking is easier on the back.
The method you described in gluing the m & t would require substantial glue clean up but without wedges in the joinery I would agree that adequate gluing would be essential. Pre Finishing the ends and just the side of the tenons where it protrudes may be the best solution to Tommy's problem.
Bret
Maybe some pics would help
Nice joinery! I'm assuming the tape is to keep the glue off the wood. The haunch adds glue area. I don't know how to improve on this.
Great suggestion Bruce.
Tom
Thanks for the replies all. For aesthetic reasons I don't want to trim the tenon after glue up, I like the look of it protruding. I think I am going to go the "glue the tenon only" suggestion. Should be plenty good considering the wedges also. Thanks again all.
P.S. I will also apply finish to the last quarter inch of tenon....thanks
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