I’ve been faced with a couple glue-ups requiring several boards which together make a surface 24″ wide or wider. When applying glue, I stand board #1 and #2 on edge and apply glue to the edges facing up. Then I put them together, laying flat. But I have yet to come up with a good way of applying glue to the other edge of board #2. Currently, I’ve been glue on my finger and spreading the glue onto the edge. Sloooow. Tick, tock. Tick tock. There’s got the be a better way. I could break the glue up into stages, two boards at a time, but is there another way?
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
– Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. – Albert Schweitzer
Replies
So many ways to do the same thing ,
A method that works for me is seam 1 and 2 up and 3 up , I apply glue to 1 and 2 and the third board at the same time , I may lay 1 and 3 down and then on the back side of 2 I use the front corner of the board and angle tilt it to the side and apply the glue . This way you lay them down and together quickly .I do mine on the already stretched out clamps ready to tighten up .
hope this helps you
dusty
flair,
As Dusty says: so many ways...
Two things, I bought one of those little squeeze bottles where you cut the tip. It's saved me a ton of glue and really speeds things up. Second, I only glue up one edge now. Were talking panels...what enormous stress will they ever be under?
There's no need to apply glue to the second edge in my experience, assuming you're talking about a standard edge joint, ie, excluding reinforcements of one sort or another. I'm also assuming you're dealing with something like PVA and other non animal glues, eg, hide glue.
I flip the edge of the boards up as you describe and apply the glue to the presented edge. After that I fold the planks down to rest on the cramps, push the glued edge of one board against the unglued edge of the adjoining plank and rub them together horizontally a few times and line up the registration mark. This spreads the glue pretty evenly on to both edge of each plank. Clamping pressure takes care of the rest of the glue spreading necessary.
After applying the glue to the upper edges and if there are five, six or more planks in a panel glue-up I usually fold down one plank at a time, rub horizontally and align. Lastly I apply the cramping pressure. If there are only a couple or three planks in the glue up I tend to fold them down all at the same time after applying the glue, then do the rubbing thing and apply pressure.
I find this minimises the time required for the job, and with some glues, such as PVA, this is pretty important as you've usually only got about 5-10 minutes to get the job done, ie, from the moment you start applying glue to the moment the pressure is applied-- the actual time available depends a bit on the air temperature and humidity. The hotter and more humid it is the less time is available to get to the end. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Do what Sgian Dubh said but do it with Titebond Extend to give yourself a little more time.
You don't need to apply glue to both mating surfaces unless you love cleaning up messes.
Edited 8/14/2008 6:45 am ET by BossCrunk
Chris,
Richard's procedure is familiar (;), and definitely no need to apply glue to both edges to be joined.
Cease the misuse of fingers unless you want to get a skin condition similar to athletes foot at best or leprosy at worst.
Using a glue container with a suitable nozzle and cap is useful if you want to avoid loss of temper. Trim the nozzle at an angle so that a decent bead flows without having to squeeze it out. Apply the glue with a reciprocating motion as you move down the edge.... You can hold short/light boards in the hand edge up or put them in a vice .
Too much glue means a messy bench, floors, clamps, clothes and shoes. Painstaking clean up, scraping and sanding, unnecessary labor and, perhaps, compromising the work piece. Things get slippery, parts slide around. Extra clamp pressure is needed and the hydraulic action of the glue may prevent things from fitting tight. Learning to apply the right amount quickly is as important as any other woodworking skill. After all, glue is what holds the project together. If you are meticulous with prepping your stock and cutting joints, you should be just as careful with glue application.
I addition to a good tip on the glue bottle and a steady hand, a good glue brush makes a significant difference in application. The acid style brushes so many use have no stiffness to the bristles, they smear the glue and it takes many strokes to paint a short edge. I buy those inexpensive 1/2" natural bristle brushes with the wood handles. I use some scissors and cut the bristles down to about 3/4" in length. With these, you can lay down the perfect amount of glue in one stroke as well as pick up any excess. You won't have glue rolling over the edges and dripping down the face of your work and you can get in tight areas with ease, mortices, shoulders on tenons, dadoes, dovetails, etc.
When gluing up multiple boards for a panel you don't need to paint both adjoining edges, just one. Joints with end grain may require application on both pieces but not on long grain. I took some pictures of a panel glue up. I did a dry fit first and had my clamps and cauls set and ready to go. I flip up my edges, squirt on glue with a good tip and spread it with the brush. With practice, it will take one stroke. I doubt if it takes me a minute and a half to apply the glue to a half dozen boards and get them in the clamps. I lightly clamp the cauls first, then pull things together with the clamps. I don't have to worry about alignment or get my fingers messy. Having the boards at equal thickness is an important part of this technique. There is very little squeeze out to clean up afterwards and the panels can be flushed up with just a little sanding or planing. It saves a lot of work and results in a flat, easy to complete panel. Life is much easier whether it's one panel or 100.
I use stand offs on the bench to allow placing cauls on both sides and use strips of wax paper so I don't glue the cauls to the panel. I have short pieces of pipe insulation on the clamps so the metal doesn't contact the glue and leave a black mark. They also keep the clamp screw in line with the work. There's no need for placing clamps on both sides of the panel and it only takes two clamps for most panels. You don't have to worry about bowing the panel and the clamps don't need to be cranked to extreme pressure. I'm not a believer in allowing the clamps to spread the glue. I want full coverage on the surface and as little mess as I can get away with.
I've worked in production shops where we have to do thousands of panels. We often had sophisticated equipment, pneumatic clamping systems with RF glue setting equipment, large planers and wide belt sanders. In my smaller shop, I needed a method that didn't rely on gluing up rough and needing large equipment to further process the panels. The method I've described gives me consistent results without a lot of fuss or labor. Careful glue application not only reduces the work but it makes sure the glue will do the job that you intended.
I only know what has worked well for me time and time again. These all seem pretty obvious, but for what it's worth:
- I love the Lee Valley 2002 GF pva glue - high solids and 15 minute open time.
- For panels (as opposed to dts, mortises etc. where an acid brush is better) I spread with thin (about 1/16th) cut offs from ripping. A piece of that works like a spatuala to spread the glue bead from the bottle evenly and thinly in no time.
- I know many folks here have said there's no need to glue both faces, but I do it and have no problems with extra mess. I'd rather 10% too much glue than 10% too little as the extra will tend to fill any slight jointing imperfections if you have any you failed to catch.
- To do middle boards, I hold the board vertical resting on the bench or the floor to apply the glue to both edges.
As others have said, there is no need to apply glue to both edges of a straight joint.
However, I like to do so -- no reason, no logic, no research, I just like to. ;-)
I accomplish this by simply rubbing the joint, as you would if you were using hide glue. After applying glue to one edge, just put the edges together with light manual pressure, and rub back and forth for a few seconds. If you want, you can separate the parts for a few seconds to "flash" the glue, so the parts stick better to reduce clamp creep. Then clamp as usual.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Mike, applying glue to one edge and rubbing them together is not applying glue to both edges. If you ran a bead on both edges and then rubbed that IS applying glue to both edges and usually results in a mess and a waste of glue.
We all apply glue to at least one edge and at some point in the process bring those surfaces together. If not, then we haven't glued anything, right?
"Mike, applying glue to one edge and rubbing them together is not applying glue to both edges."
Sure it is. It's using the first glued edge as a glue applicator and spreader for the second edge. The reason I like to do this is that I used to carefully apply glue to only one edge. For some reason, I had to unclamp and disassemble one such joint while still wet and noticed that the glue was not well distributed on the unglued surface. Since that time, I've rubbed my joints whenever possible. The rubbing tends to even out the glue on both sides of the joint.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
For some reason, I had to unclamp and disassemble one such joint while still wet and noticed that the glue was not well distributed on the unglued surface.
I had the exact same experience, with the same result (that is, I now smear both faces).
When one prepares a rubbed joint as you have described one is considered to have applied glue to one edge and then have mated the joint by rubbing.
Applying a bead to both edges before bringing them together is what is being recommended against since it usually results in too much wasted and pooled glue.
Edited 8/15/2008 4:58 pm ET by PanBroil
Thanks to all for the responses. Like Samson put it, I'd rather have 10% too much than 10% too little. But I will try applying glue to just one edge. Hammer, I like your glue brush idea and will give that a try. I have been in the habit of rubbing the boards together and will continue to do so.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris - I agree with the others here, there's no need to apply glue to both surfaces of a glue-up unless you're remarkably stingy with the glue and you get no squeeze-out when you apply the clamps.
Regarding applying glue - I typically am using hot hide glue, so I use a glue brush from ToolsforWorkingWood to get it out of the pot and get it onto the surface.
However, and this works for good ole yellow PVA glue as well as hide glue - Use a $1.50 painter's palette knife to spread it. There are never any brushes to clean up (you just wipe the stainless blade clean), and it's a heck of lot more efficient and speedy in applying glue to a long or wide surface, and you can get an almost endless variety of shapes and sizes for next to nothing at most art supply stores. You can also get them from http://www.jerrysartarama.com if you prefer to order them.
When I have to glue up several boards to make a wide plank (I avoid this like the plague, but sometimes wider wood just isn't available in some species), I cover the bench top with waxed butcher paper, set several bessey clamps face-up on the bench, then glue the boards and squeeze them together. The wax butcher paper comes in wide widths, is cheap, and means I don't have to worry about looking under the assembly to find a microdot of glue that's fallen to the bench and will take work to get off. The paper also works really well with finishes.
There are some that will say that Real Men don't have clean bench tops, but I find it are real pain in the rear to get dried glue and finish out of the mouth of a plane when I have to re-level the top.
I glue only one edge of each board, using one of those glue bottles with a screw-on plastic roller. The roller is about 2 inches wide, so it works for virtually any glueup. When not in use during the glueup, I unscrew the roller and toss it into a jar of water, to keep the glue from solidifying (although it does peel off easily when dry).
Stand the boards with the edges to be glued facing up, and roll away.
On a really wide glueup, I do two or three boards, clamp and let them dry for about a half hour, and continue. Or, do this procedure to another two or three boards, and when both "boards" are dry, glue them together.
Tip: to avoid confusion in the always-frantic glueup, after you have your boards arranged just so (no glue), pencil a "V" across all (not each one of) the boards. When you glue, the finished glueup will have the "V" just like before you started
kreuzie
I believe the V you refer to is more commonly known as the Cabintemaker's Triangle.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
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