Well some of you may remember some of my recent post on achieving a “Stickley” or Arts and Crafts finish on a bed I’m making. The process was Jeff Jewitts and involved a 5 step process. After much consideration, I believe the complexity of the bed and my lack of experience in this process eg. dyes, that I will be better served going with an actual Stickley finish of fuming.
I have read many discussions here and elsewhere on the fuming process and am comfortable with it and the results especially in regard to safety. My biggest concern is the uniformity of color. I am not looking for a completely uniform or commercial finish which I believe would negate the idea of the Arts and Crafts style finish in the first place. I know that the bed is made of a disparate boards (QS White Oak) which I chose mostly for the amount of figure and I know this can cause different levels of darkening (also a couple of the slats or stiles have a small amount of sap wood.) My question for those who have fumed is if you have ever had radical differences in color in which the project looks to be flawed rather than just have character.
Lastly I of course want to “pop” the ray fleck and am going with a oil/urathane blend for the top coats. For an under coat, I’ve had suggestions of either using boiled linseed oil or a thin coat of dewaxed shellac (Zinnsners). Any thoughts? Will the oil in the topcoat blend penetrate and have the same effect over shellac?
Thanks
Replies
I have a question, rather than input. Where did you find industrial grade ammonia? I looked and looked, finally gave up and used stain on my baby's cradle...I was told that because it can be used in making explosives, no one carries it anymore (post-sept. 11)...
I looked on the internet for a local chem supply company. I called them and they said they only sold to other companies. So I asked what companies they sold to that sell retail. One of these was Aldrich chem. in Milwaukee @414.273.3850. I don't know if they will ship because its hazmat. If they will it will cost you. I would look locally. Try janitorial supply. Its not like you need a janitorial licence so I don't know why they would have trouble selling it to anyone else.
Now lets not forget about my questions : - )
You can lighten the color with bleaching. Different pieces of wood will fume different. Just fume the lighter pieces more. Even house hold ammonia will work just leave it in longer. You might try a blue print supply company for ammonia. Should be able to get it for free. Used in the blue print machines. You can also fume after an oil finish. Watch out for hardware. Copper will turn green.
I am in Chatt., Tn. and bought some today after much hunting. I found single gallons at a blueprint supply store.....give up on chemical warehouses, they sellit in barrels. You can mail order it , but much too exp. to ship.good luck!
There is an article in the most recent FWW on fuming. They point out that the heavy duty ammonia is used in making blueprints, so those may be the folks to check out. They usually term what they do as "technical reproductions" or something like that.
Interestingly, fuming was chosen in part because it does not pop the fleck. Stickly was trying to make the fleck more subtle.
As has been pointed out in other posts, fuming will tend to deemphacize the ray fleck, rather than "pop" it, because the ammonia will darken the flecks just as much as the surrounding wood.. You did not explain why you have chosen this course of finishing. The only way I could justify fuming would be simply for the experience of doing it, rather than a quest for a better finish. The Homestead finish will work beautifully for you, as many here have testified. At least do some test pieces before you proceed.
I prefer to fume Arts and Crafts projects for the "historical accuracy"
aspect of it. I also like the look much more because no dark stain is rubbed into the pores while being wiped off of the surface. The ray fleck will "pop" with irridescence once the oil is applied, however it will be the same color as the surrounding wood.
As for the variations in the color, Stickley used a Japan stain to touch up those areas. I have used a glaze with good success, applying a little between each coat of oil.
Good Luck"Kinky for Gov. of Texas"
Hey thanks,
What type of oil do you use? Is it wise to put a thin coat of shellac on before the oil or will that prevent the oil from penetrating how it should? I guess the other option would just to go from shellac to urathane or go from oil (linseed?) to urathane.
What is Japan stain. You say I can use this to bring in pieces that don't color well? Tell me more please.
If historical accuracy is your bag , than you need to do a little more research to find that Stickley did use asphaltum, which is basically thinned roofing tar, to fill in the pores...and in black, generally.
I think the difference in our outlooks is that you want your pieces to look like they did then. The goal of most reproducers is to duplicate the way those hundred year old antique pieces look today.
Thanks, Handrubbed. You're exactly right about the asphaltum. Stickly did use it on some of his furniture--but not all. I am just trying to point out which look I prefer when I build a piece. I guess it's important to note that Stickley constantly experimented and tweaked his procedures just like we all do.
I think it's great that a product manufactured in the early part of the last century still sparks the passion and attention to detail in its reproduction that Arts and Crafts furniture does.
Thanks again.
"Kinky for Gov. of Texas"
One quick tip I gleaned from the article on fuming we published in the latest issue is that you can ensure consistent color by leaving some parts in the amonia fume longer than others. With the table featured in the article, the author fumed the top a few hours longer than the base in order to match the colors.
Matt Berger
Fine Woodworking
Edited 8/11/2006 12:52 pm ET by MBerger
Thanks,
I did read that article and it was helpful. Unfortunately the bed will be preassembled and in four major pieces - headboard, footboard, and 2 rails. Otherwise I would be trying to manange to coloring of over 100 different pieces. I'm mostly worried about drastic contrasts within the major components.
Drastic contrasts are unlikely. If you do encounter some pieces that are too light try brushing on a little ammonia (use a foam brush). You can also treat the wood with tannin which will react with the ammonia giving you a darker hue. Some woodworkers use a very strong tea brew to accomplish this. This is also the way in which you can use fuming to tint other woods which are not naturally supplied with high concentrations of tannin. You just brush the tea on like a water stain and let it dry before fuming.
I was able to get a free 5 gal. jug of industrial strength ammonia from a commercial blueprinter/printshop a few years back. It has lasted me a long time (I generally put back in jug when done. I have ended up with differences in color that appear to be from a sap/old wood transition in boards, but they are not always apparant before fuming. I had one qtr. sawn board that had a stripe right thru the middle (end to end) that I could not explain. But generally they have been acceptable/desireable "defects/flaws" to the projects I've done. I don't go back and recolor/stain areas to cover them up.
I have toyed with the idea of fuming all my boards after I've straighted/planed them, but before I work out my cuts of pieces for a project. I've been very suprised on the depth of coloring that occurs on some boards and believe I might not have to refume them after recutting to get the new/fresh edges to match/blend.
Here is my 2 cents...I was at one of the Arts & Crafts conferences in Ashville ,NC and looked at several original Stickley pieces. Most of them I thought were very dull and unattractive(the finish). I only say this because I think there is a difference between what we might think we want and what we might get. I love to finish qrt sawn wht oak using a water base light red mohagnay stain, a coat of linseed, a coat of brown glaze, and 3 coats of poly. The finish comes out a reddish/brown more modern look. I had gotten the formula from a book, Authentic Arts & Crafts Furniture Projects, from the Editors of Popular Woodworking. Even the new Stickley people produce 3 or 4 colars ranging oak color to more of a reddish look. The brown glaze tones down the red stain.
I've fumed a number of pieces and echo that the flecks and rays will be de-emphasized. Drafting supply houses are another source for the ammonia - I've been working on the same gallon for 3+ years now. I've finished pieces both with a simple danish oil and with an orange shellac, which is nice for certain pieces. While the variety of shades from different pieces may please you I almost assure you that the sapwood will NOT please you. It tends to, no matter how long you fume it, remain significantly lighter than the heartwood, so much so that, to my taste, it stands out like a sore thumb.
Which do you think gives the better "shimmer?" The Danish oil or Linseed? Orange Shallac to give it a more reddish hue? Can you tint oils such as linseed with dye or stain by first diluting them in alcohol? Also, what about bringing the sapwood into the color after fuming with a little Japan stain or glaze?
I'm not by any means an expert on finishing - it's my weakest area in the craft. That said, the orange shellac darkens the fumed oak a little, warms it up, and gives it a slightly "aged" look that I find appropriate for certain things. I then buffed it out with a wax. I'm not sure what you mean by "shimmer" - the oil is a little glossier, if that helps.
Have been following this thread. But this time I started without my glasses and got a big chuckle. "Going ahead with fuming but!"
Think about it. Ammonia stinks too.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I'm glad to see someone got it!
Hi,
With regards sourcing strong enough ammonia, I bought a gallon of I think 22-26% stuff from a swimming pool supply place. I admit that my 1 gallon milk type container purchased has lasted me a number of years, but it doesn't take industrial quantities to fume a piece. Maybe 3 shallow bowls scattered about your fuming tent for 2 or three dining chairs. My advice is to experiment. Use off cuts from the differrent boards and prop them in a decent size box and cover with a plastic sheet. Put about a saucerful in there then after maybe 4 hours remove and wipe a portion of each one with Danish or something. If you like the color, stop there. Do this every couple of hours till you have the desired tone. Remember, the wood comes out of the tent looking a little grey with fuzzed up grain. (Pre wet and lightly sand prior to fuming)
Beware, too long and you will have virtually ebonized oak. The deal is that you can assess how different the boards will look given a particular time frame which may through experimention and your own expectations, force you to reconsider the process and resort to dyes/stains/glazes etc. Better try out with scraps than lose big bucks in wood and time.
One other thing. Please be careful with this stuff. It will damage you severely if you are careless. wear swimming type goggles and a rated vapor mask when handling. Rubber gloves are good too. Also when removing your tent make sure pets, kids or neighbors aren't around.
Regards, Earl in Alabama
I have been following this thread, and have recently sawn a couple of fairly large W Oaks into mostly QS lumber, that I am looking forward to using in about a year. I have never tried the fuming, but will probably try it with some hollow turnings under a plastic trash can first. I have been wondering though, what other woods react to this other than W Oak? Does anyone have a good resource link?
Keith, the answer is anything with a significant tannin content. Chestnut, mahogany, cherry and walnut for example.
An easy test is take a sample (or samples) of wood of your choice, cut a piece (or pieces) off as a control, rig up a small plastic tent or any other small enclosed box, e.g., plastic sandwich box, food box, or even those large plastic storage boxes you can buy.
Put some ammonia in a saucer and put your sample or samples in for 6-24 hours. It doesn't have to be a high concentration ammonia. Several household cleaners include ammonia in their chemical mix, e.g., glass cleaner. If you're using a large plastic storage box, just empty the glass cleaner into the bottom of the box- no saucer required. It's best if the fumes can circulate the samples of course so rig something up to hold the wood up in the air. Four pins driven in one face of your samples will do it.
Granted, the low ammonia concentrations of things like window cleaner don't work anywhere near as effectively as high concentration stuff, but if you leave your samples in your sealed container for a while, maybe up to 24 hours or so, you'll get a good idea of what fumes and what doesn't. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 8/20/2006 5:11 am by SgianDubh
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