I’m looking to upgrade my router. Finewoodworking editor did a nice router table video, but did not mention where we can buy the rectangular replacement router base. Most my work would be on table top so I’m looking for a router that lets me adjust height and bit replacement easily. The reviews show the routers are all over the place (table top adjustments, but not effective, etc…) Any suggestions based on your personal experience on a router that meets my needs?
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Replies
There are lots of great choices, but I've been really pleased with my Freud FT1700 in the router table. It has a lot of above table features...above table height adjustments, above table height lock, auto collet lock, and one handed above table bit changes (my favorite feature). I like it enough that I typically use the FT1700 over my Milwaukee 5625, which is a very good router too. I've also got a very good Bosch 1617 that's good for hand use or table use.
http://www.epinions.com/review/Freud_2_1_4_HP_Variable_Speed_Fixed_Base_Router_FT1700VCEK/content_228357738116
You might consider one of the Triton routers. They're consistently top-rated and now come standard with a lift mechanism that allows bit height adjustment above the table. If you search "Triton Router" in Amazon, they'll come right up.
Here's a pretty good play-by-play on using Lee Valley's insert plate kit:
http://www.whitemountdesign.com/RouterTableProject.htm
Visit me at The Wood Mechanic site!
and bit replacement easily...
Not that helpful.. Make it hard so you have time to think about what you will be doing next.. Exercise.. As in bending over to change the bit!
See summary on selection. Understand, that there are more than 60 routers extant. And every month the makers are trying to refine their tools for upside-down use. In my view, none of them have done it yet. If convenience for inverted use is paramount, then study the Router Lifts.
Routers
All good thoughts. My own, I have the large PC upside down in my table. It works fine because of the power, but doesnt meet your criteria for ease on height adjustments or bit changes.
I almost exclusively use my Festool wares anymore, and bit changes there are a snap, but I can say I've never tried one in a table. I think they're fabulous routers though, and the micro adjust - 1/10 of a mm per click. Dang. Thats hard to top.
I've tried Tritons. I'm probably in a minority, but I thought they were loud, vibrated a lot, and awkward and clunky to deal with. I understand where they were coming from in design with some of the features, which would be useful in a table application, but overall, they just didnt impress me. I think the cheapie Bosch I leave in the trailer for getting beat around is a better router than the Triton. Which was kind of a bummer of a conclusion to come to. I kind of wanted to like the things.
I used a friends router table a couple of times and he has a small PC in it, I think I better find a link . . . ok no link needed its a model 892, 2 1/4 horse. Anyway, I did think that was a nice little guy for smaller table work, mostly because adjusting the height, you simply pulled a lever and there was a very large and accessible knob that you turned which adjusted height. That really worked well. And the motor struck me as very non "690" - much quieter and smoother, not so much of a shrill scream that you get from some of their other wares.
My2cw
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Thanks for the feedback. There's a lot of options out there, and I'm not any closer to it now. I really like the reviews on the Freud FT1700 router, but on Amazon, many people really dislike it for quality and height adjustments. The Triton has not been tried on table top. Perhaps I should stay with the true and tried Porter Cable or Dewalt or Bosch. Any particular thoughts on these tools. I prefer a medium sized router that balances between table-mounted and hand-held use. Thx.
I have the 2.25 Triton in a table, it's great. Bit changes are a snap.
Niggling complaints:
1. I have to look under the table to get the raising crank to attach to the up-and-down gizmo. That's just awful! ;-)
2. The dust collector port (for under-table) doesn't really enable simple hose connection. It might work better if I had the Triton adapter - it should come with the router. Usually, however, dust collection from the top of the table is fine.
If the work is heavy enough, might consider a Milwaukee 5625 (they are offering the body separate from the base, with an outboard speed control/power switch) with a quality lift (Jessem or Woodpecker).
Wow, a router doesn't seem to be that difficult of a device to get right after 100 years, but I guess a perfect one is still being designed. I have researched every one of the routers mentioned here (Amazon user comments are very helpful), and all have good and bad things about them. The Festool sounds like it's the cream of the crop, but the price is out of my range. The Dewalt 618PK seems to be the best combination of size, 2.5 horse, plunge smooth operation, fixed is good, no complaints on switches, good quality, no broken plastic parts, etc... I think I will go down this road. Hope I'm making the right choice here as I tend to feel personal about my tools and don't want to get caught in a bad "relationship." Now on to purchasing a Rockler Routing table for the Dewalt. Hope this is a good combination. Thanks all for the wonderful insights.
Streamline,
I've got the Dewalt 621 and in handheld mode it is suburb. Great dust collection, well designed, etc. etc. However, in router table...what a pain...adjusting height takes forever, offset wrench was required to change bits, and I needed to tape handle/switch so it would stay on. I bought the Triton 3.25 for the router table ..its been a dream.
I don't know the 618..but be careful
The 618 and 621 are actually very different in their designs (the 621 is an Elu design). I've used the 618 in a router table--using the fixed base--and it works. The height adjustment is not as smooth as one would like, but serviceable. I just popped the router motor out of the base to do bit changes; it takes ten seconds to remove and ten seconds to put back, so it was never much of an issue.
-Steve
Great, I don't have to start my search over then. thx.
I run a Milwaukee 5625 3 1/2 HP under the table with no lift (on board above table adjuster even though it is just as easy to adjust by manually going under) and I wouldn't remove it from there. I had been through Bosch and PC down there and the Milwaukee removed them from my shop.
But.. with that said... I got frustrated with a Bosch combo set when it's switch decided to fail again in the middle of a project where time was a factor to keep moving. I went to the phone and placed an order on a Combo kit I had been eyeing. My DW 721 plunge just didn't have the depth that I needed for hand-held above the table in this case and I had run into that before. Otherwise it is an excellent plunge.
I took a gamble and went to the phone an ordered the 2 1/4 HP Combo kit from Milwaukee. I had use the fixed part and love the feel of the Body Grip design. The gamble was that Milwaukee just introduced the plunge this year. They have never made a plunge and I gambles from their current efforts that the plunge would meet the standards that the 5625 big boy and the fixed Body Grip already have.
Since that time.. PWW voted the Milwaukee combo one of best new tools of 2007.. FWW did something similar in it's test. The reviews came after my purchase, but it didn't matter as when I used the new plunge the DW 721 and Bosch combo were sold immediately as they had been permanently replaced.
Plunge... excellent.. very quick bit and arbor change.. much power in the 2 1/4 HP as it's bigger brother 5625.. motor comes out of the base instantly.. I could go on but will just add that the combo with both the fixed and plunge 2 1/4 HP is the best router I have held in my hand in over 36 years. I love every detail with the exception they could have beefed up the size of the lock screw on the depth set and that is a very minor point.
Results... Milwaukee finished the project with ease and everything about it's operation meet my approval with ease. I was so elated I did a review on Amazon on the Combo kit. Milwaukee is in my shop to stay both under the table and above in both fixed and plunge.
It get's er done... I didn't expect anything less from them and they came through with flying colors on the plunge.. Milwaukee may have been the beer that made Milwaukee famous... but Milwaukee is also the routers that made a picky old man "happy" in Atlanta...
Why not... it's Milwaukee...
Sarge..
I have a PC 690 series with a fixed and plunge base. Thought it was great when I bought it a year and a half ago but now I'm thinking differently.
It just crapped out a few days ago while mounted in my table. One of the brushes broken up and "keys" on the armature got bent up. That a $110 repair at the local DW/Delta/PC repair shop. I'm not sure what came first but I think it's unacceptable being that it probably only has about 10 hrs of use on it and the brush that stayed intact only showed about 10% wear.
I'm starting to get pretty down on PC. I had a circular saw that was absolute garbage out of the box. I wrote a scathing review on FWW and sold it on ebay. Then purchased a Festool and wow!! If I could afford a Festool router I would have one but like someone else I'm a little dubious on how it would be in a table.
I've borrowed my dad's 890 and will see how that does when I get back to work on the project this weekend. I guess I'll get my 690 fixed but I'm looking into the Dewalt combo. No good reason except that I've seen a lot of pros using it on tv and magazines. I have also asked a couple people who have them and like them (including the owner of the local woodcraft) and they all say they have no complaints. I know that not exactly doing ones due diligence on research but I'm in a hurry. I'm usually much more astute and a little manic about my tool research but this will have to do this time. I guess from this thread, I'll look into Milwaukee as well.
Not to digress or get on a soap box but I'm getting a little sick of the apparent culture/mentality of US tool manufacturers. When you boil it down they have all been doing the same thing for decades with no innovation and certainly no quality control. They just give it a new color, box, name, etc... and present the same crap every year while acting as though we should be happy that they are charging the max or just under what the market will bear with the occasional rebate because "thats what my dad had" or "thats what my buddy uses" and the one that pisses my off the most "it's from an American company."
I've served in military, worked as a union employee, and am currently in sales for both American and foreign heavy equipment and I could care less wear its made or wear the company pays it's taxes - or lack there of. I take exception with what I take to be a condescending and arrogant attitude of many of these manufacturers (tools, cars, and the like.) Its as if they are saying you not smart enough or don't care enough because we're betting you buy from us because of who we are, and where we're form. I work hard for my money and when it comes to buying any durable item, I will pay for the best when I can (and sometimes when I can't) regardless of where it's made. As far a tools go, Festool (and probably SawStop)is the only one that is arguably different. "Well they cost too much" Well it's how you define cost, or more precisely, cost benefit.
Again my apologies but I feel better.
I would say your experience with the 690 is the exception rather than the rule, there are a zillion of them out there, many in production shops. They are a no frills proven design and I for one am glad they didn't change it every year just for the sake of being "new and innovative". It does what it's supposed to do well and most of them do it for many years.
The $110 repair seems foolish when you can buy a new one for under a hundred on Amazon right now. Not that they will care but I would point that out to the folks at the repair shop. I'm not a fan of PC's new owners, Black and Decker has a history of poor service and turning good tools to cr^p.
You might take a look at Metabo as a tool maker that does things differently although they do not offer a router in the US.
The largest buying demographic in america is illiterate idiots as a quick spin through the television channels and commercials or a walk through your local wally world makes readily apparent. The maufacturers who market in this country are targeting that demographic.
You have become a niche market and will have to pay a premium for a product to your liking due to the economics of scale. There's no use kvetching about it as you are vastly outnumbered. Do your homework and dig deeper in your wallet for those increasingly worthless greenbacks or be assimilated.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Touche
I agree. I do know that on the balance it is a good workhorse router and I just got the short end of the stick on this particular one.
Your analysis of the market is accurate as well. I shouldn't care but the way some people make buying decisions drives me up the wall.
I found a listing for a new motor.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Porter-Cable-690-Router-Motor-for-690-Routers_W0QQitemZ250201776748QQihZ015QQcategoryZ20781QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Wow,
Thanks much. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on that one. I'll have enough left over to add to the second router fund.
Hi,
Avoid the Freud routers at all cost. Complete lemons, bad switches, base plates non concentric with arbor/collet and not adjustable, handles break easily, loud...Festool is the finest bar none. Otherwise consider the Milwaukee, the model with the built on hand strap is a real good performer.The Triton is not my cup of tea, used one at a friends shop, I hated it as did he.
Edited 1/3/2008 10:42 am ET by Syma
I'll throw my vote in for the Triton 3.25. Above the table bit change (can't imagine it any other way now), plenty of power. You can't adjust the height from above the table, but the knob is easy to reach under the table. As mentioned, the 2.25 model allows above the table height adjustment.
Good luck!
Josh
I am a confirm Triton fan. I am not a heavy user, so in time it may fail but as others note, the mainstream brands have problems as well. FWW did a review and gave it good marks. Pretty good dust collection also.
With respect to your table insert, I would suggest you track down some of Pat Warner's thoughts on inserts. For the price of a decent insert, you can build several solid continuous tops or one with several holes to accommodate the 2 or 3 different bit sizes you might use.
It seems against current thinking until you try it. Works great.
Don
Hey Streamline -
Simple. Porter Cable #7918. Its the gold standard for router tables and with bearings the size it has, it has the heft to run reliably for years. I have been running mine over 5 and had the previous model that this one replaced for over 15. All terrific.
I also agree with the other comments about Milwaukee, my second choice.
Against popular belief, I would never put a plunge router in a router table. What you gain in raising convenience you loose in accuracy due to the minimal support two small .75" diameter spring loaded shafts have for a plunge vs. a 3 - 3.5 inch motor diameter for perpendicularity and concentricity of the base. Just no comparison.
Regarding bit changes, I remove the PC 7918, place it on the bench and make the change. Its fast, saves the skin on my knuckles, and adjusting it into place is a snap vs. twenty to thirty twists of a crank to raise the router and the expense of it all.
Opt for a great router table - not bench top, but floor model with plenty of open area underneath. The Freud model is nice, but if you have room on the end of your table saw, the router table extensions in cast iron is great and flexible.
Good luck. Hope it helps.
Jeff
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