Hi all, I’m a regular reader here, but first time post. Hopefully you gurus can help me out.
I have a 50 year old walnut veneer drop leaf dining table that I am refinishing. Due to water stains and such I’ve completely stripped it down (oxalic bleach and all) so it looks like brand new. I’ve stained and washcoated it.
Anyway, I’m wondering about grain filler. I read a lot of horror stories and instructions for application, but no specifics on how to tell if you’ve done it properly or what it should look like.
I picked up a can of Behlen’s Pore-o-Pac “Natural” since it’s the only brand/color my local woodwork store carries in the oil-base. I started mixing in mixol pigments (the only pigment my store had) but I found diminishing returns- I could only get it as dark as chocolate milk. I was adding a lot of pigment but it really wasn’t getting much darker. Should it? Should I try artist oil or will I have the same result? Roughly how much pigment should I need? I mixed about 1/3 pint of filler and used probably a teaspoon of pigment. If I mix up half a pint, will I need a whole tube of artist oil?
I ended up trying it out on the bottom side of the leafs after they were stained and washcoated (I don’t have any spare 1960 walnut veneer handy). I applied the chocolate milk mixture that flashed off to a nice slate gray. 😉
Should I try staining the filler after it’s applied? I was under the impression that it wouldn’t take stain.
Maybe the gray will disappear as it dries? I read somewhere that “natural” was transparent…
Should I just mail order some in “Medium Brown Walnut” flavor? I wondered if this would also give me the same gray sheen as it dried, so I thought I’d ask before wasting the money.
Thanks in advance for any input.
Replies
The Behlen's is not transparent, just a pale tan. Fillers with more silica such as those from Old Masters or Sherwin Williams are more translucent though still not transparent, because of that silica. They also shrink less
Which Mixol pigment color are you using? I don't think 1 teaspoon is even close to being too much -- double or triple that before giving up on the mixol since you already have it. I've usually used artists oils so I can't be precise about the amounts of Mixol. I doubt you would see much change after it dries, though perhaps a little, but only a little, darkening when a top coat is applied.
Steve,
Concerning Mixol: Their literature states that when mixing into an oil based medium, it should be done with a power mixer. This will allow it to fully incorporate. I suspect the OP is not getting the full use of this pigment. At a 13 pint of filler, a teaspoon or two should be adequate. Of course that depends on the color used. If it was one of the lighter browns, that would be as dark as it would ever get. A drop or two of black would rectify that situation.
Peter
Thanks for your comment Peter.
I started with #23 Dark Brown and when it wasn't getting any darker started adding #1 Black. No less than about 50 drops of black.
I mixed it quite well, but I did not use a power mixer. It was very even though, I didn't see any globs or streaks.
I wonder if the issue is simply the opaque gray particles in the filler? I guess I'm adding pigment to the binder/thinner but the opaque gray particles remain, obscuring the color. I wonder if the only solution is simply to mail order a darker color... I just wonder if they start by grinding up a material with a darker color, or if they've simply added pigment to the batch. I would hate to order some and get a new can of what I already have ;)
It sounds like your filler is a little "chunky" for lack of a better word. Try this: get some cheese cloth. With a 12 inch square of it fold it over in half then half again. Put this over a 16 oz cup, like the ones you get for take out food. Pour your filler into the cheese cloth. Then pull the four corners together and hold it closed at the top. Then, with your other hand, pull down on it forcing the filler through the cloth. You'll get a strained mixture like this. Be sure and wear rubber gloves. Also be sure and lay this cloth out flat somewhere outside to dry to eliminate the chance of spontaneous combustion.
The amount of black you put in that particular brown was a lot and in theory should have saturated the filler with color. Try straining the mixture and do a sample. Then let us know if you have any gray patches.
Steve mentioned a couple of other fillers. The one I use, Sherwin Williams is only available in gallons and is rather pricey but worth every penny at $68 a gallon. If the other one he mentioned is close in formula to the S.W., for future purchases, consider using it. Pore O Pac in my opinion is at the bottom of the pack.
One other word on colorants. As an alternative, consider using artist oil colors. Windsor Newton makes a very good artist oil paint that can be purchased at any decent art supply store. Some that I always have on hand include burnt umber, raw umber, burnt sienna, yellow ochre and blue. With those I can make almost any color filler I need. If you don't know what these colors are it's time to do a little reading.
Keep us posted on progress.
Thanks, Peter!
I don't think my Pore-o-Pac needs straining, but thanks for the tip. I guess I wasn't very clear- by "opaque gray particles" I meant at a microscopic level :) Mine is very very fine like a plaster. But I know that what's in there is a very finely ground solid, and that's what I meant. I'm just thinking out loud, wondering if the darker colors might dry less gray if their ingredients are colored before they are ground. In other words grinding up brown earth instead of gray earth.
I think you were exactly right before about power mixing the colors. Tonight I made a new batch and mixed it with a strip of scrap oak taped to a flat wood bit on my power drill at high speed. I really do think that helped the color come out. Hooray for science! With probably 50 drops of brown and 100 drops of black, I was able to get a pint of mixture to a nice melted hershey bar color.
I stopped into my local Sherwin Williams store today and asked about wood grain filler. The guy didn't know what I was talking about, so he called the larger store in the area. The guy there said they didn't carry such a thing, and couldn't order it. Actually $68 a gallon isn't expensive when you think about it, just a lot more than I need. I paid $24 for a quart of Behlen's, plus a can of special reducer. Next time I'll pay you to send me a can of what you use ;)
As for artist oil colors, I did pick some up on my way home. However, I got to thinking about it and thought I'd try the pigment again because I figured the linseed oil in the paints would slow down the drying time. I wonder if that's the difference in time between Behlen's recommended 24 hours and most people saying to give it a week.
It's not surprising the S.W. people didn't know anything about it. The regular paint stores cater to painters. They will have some stain and some topcoats but that's not their focus. You need to find an industrial S.W., one that carries their line of lacquers, pre-cats etc.For reference the product # for the filler is D70 T 1. I ordered some and had it delivered to a local S.W. When I went to get it the salesman picked it up and grimaced as a gallon is pretty heavy. He looked at it and asked what it was as he had never even heard of it. If you ever order some be sure and to ask for a fresh can, not more than four months old.
Filler is a few basic components. The most important is silica which is ground quartz. The more silica the better. SW has a very high percentage while the Pore O Crap has very little. Instead it relies on much cheaper components like chalk to bulk up their product. It comes down to pricing. Many years ago I spoke with a SW chemist who told me calcium carbonate was 3 cents a pound by the rail car where silica was 15 cents. Quite a difference.
The oil colors will work just fine. Remember they have a drier added to them where the Mixol does not. I know the can says to wait 24 hours but as you've read in the past, prudence calls a longer dry time. Err on the side of caution. Under very good conditions I'll give filler a minimum of 48 hours.
Concerning the can of "special reducer" Did you read the side of the can to see what was so special about it? You can use basic mineral spirits or naptha. With naptha you need to know it will flash off faster so doing smaller areas at a time is key.
I know I said this before; you need to read some of the books out there on the subject. It will make a world of difference as you progress.
"The Behlen's is not
"The Behlen's is not transparent, just a pale tan."
Mine is defnitely aircraft gray, no hint of brown in it, that is interesting. Could I have a bad batch? I would guess there's probably some variation though depending on what they grind up in there.
"Which Mixol pigment color are you using?"
I used #23 Dark Brown until I got to what I would call a tan, like cardboard drink carrier. That was probably 30 or 40 drops. Then I went and picked up some Black #1. That started to make it a bit darker, more like chocolate milk, but after about 50 drops, the last 10 drops didn't seem to be making any difference, so I stopped. It didn't seem like I should be adding the whole bottle.
Thanks for your input!
Pictures
Photos of my mixture and my nice gray pores.
Progress
This afternoon I had a thought to check and see if maybe the gray would turn to brown with the finish. I wiped on some mineral spirits and lo and behold! The gray turned back to brown of the original mix. So I figured I just needed to mix a darker brown, which I achieved (see my post "Thanks").
Here is a pic of that where you can see the chalky brown in the pores with the mineral spirits, and the really light gray of the dry pores in the background.
So, long story short, I think it will work. But I will know next time to start with a dark brown filler to begin with.
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