I am finishing a piece made of air dried walnut, with nice variegated color, and crotch veneer, as well as some curly grain. I was going to use Tung oil thinned with mineral spirits to pop the grain and then fill pores with walnut colored po-o-pac filler. When I tried it on a test piece, the por-o-pac SIGNIFICANTLY darkened the surface even after vigorously rubbing it off with burlap. I did want the pores to be darkened but not the surface, to preserve some of the variegated color. The oil already darkened the test piece a lot.
I could thin it with naptha. I read another post about wet sanding after oil and letting the slurry fill the pores. Would that be effective enough to French polish from there?
Replies
JayS,
After the oil has dried then put a seal coat of shellac on top. I use about a 1# cut. Then fill the grain and rub out with 0000 steel wool and seal with another coat of shellac, then finish with any topcoat you like.
Another way is to use 4F pumice with oil. You sprinkle the pumice on the top and then add oil and work the pumice into the pores with a rag. Remove just like regular grain filler. Then wait for the oil to dry and seal with shellac and topcoat. I usually use a mix of 2 parts Boiled Linseed Oil 1 part Turpentine and a small amount of Japan Drier.
J.P.
What you are describing is basically French polishing, which I have done, but have been disappointed to find that 6 months after doing it (on 3 separate pieces) the pores have turned white. The pumice particles seemed colorless and transparent when the finish was first applied, and I was initially thrilled with the result. Others have advised me on this forum that I must have used too much pumice. They are probably right, but I followed the directions exactly as discussed by Jeff Jewitt in his video tape on the subject, and in several articles.
In any case, I wanted to go back to using a silex filler like por-o-pac, which is colored. I will try the sealer coat of shellac before filling to see if it prevents the coloring of the surface. That may be the ticket.
Regarding the wet sanding when the oil is applied, I like the idea of the wood dust filling the pores, but I wanted to avoid too much sanding. Phil Lowe was talking about making reproduction furniture and pointed out that sandpaper wasn't even invented until the late 1800's. Therefore, an 18th century reproduction should have it's surface finished with a plane and or scraper only. The chisel is the tool leaving the final surface in some cases, eg the chamfer at the edge of the splat, of the Queen Ann chair I am making.
Thanks,
Jay
JayS,Even when you use shellac, the Pore-o-Pac does still tone the piece slightly. Although you wont have to worry about it staining the wood.The only times I have had the pumice reappear was when I used only shellac as the filler. When I used oil I did not have those problems.As far as the queen anne goes. I generally just use a dark garnet shellac. No grain filler. Usually 1 spit coat and 2 or 3 full strength coats then wax. Grain filling chairs is a pain. Like you, I don't sand very much. I much prefer a hand tooled surface. Any way I hope you post some photos when you are finished.Oh yeah, Phil uses sandpaper plenty. He likes to play the curmudgeon. J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
What is a spit coat? I assume very dilute? I have attached to photos of the piece so far, after tung oil only, no shellac yet. I was going to spray it with HVLP then rub out with steel wool. I made this with wood left over from wood I used for a secretary. My finishing question about the pores is probaby more releveant to that piece, which I am also about to finish.
Jay
Incidentally, when I had the pumice re-appear, I was using mineral oil as a lubricant on the "tampon" or pad while doing traditional French polishing. Some of the oil should have remained in the pores, although supposedly, as the shellac particles settle down into the pores, the mineral oil is displaced to the srface, and "spirited off" at the end of the process , with mostly alcohol on the tampon. How exactly do you do it ? Please list steps. Thanks.
Jay
Jay,
Thats a fabulous chair. The grain is incredible... I think Id be worried too.
Ill get back to my straight stick of wood.
-zen
Jay,I like the chair. The walnut is very nice. I really like the way the oil brings out the color and figure of walnut.My process for french polishing is not traditional. I brush on the spit coat, about a 1 # cut of shellac. Then I fill the grain with 4F pumice and oil. I use 2 parts linseed oil 1 part turpentine and a little japan drier. I oil the surface and then sprinkle with pumice and use a wadded up rag to work the pumice into the pores. After a couple of days the oil dries and I topcoat with one spit coat and one full coat, 2 # cut, of shellac. In between the coats of shellac I will rub out with 0000 steel wool to remove any lap or brush marks. After this I then pick up the tampon and start polishing in the traditional way.I have had pretty good success using this process, and it seems to make the polishing go faster with the same results as the traditional method.Sometimes I will use a pad to put the shellac down and other times a brush. Just depends which ever is handy. Less rubbing out to do with padded on shellac, it seems to go on a little thinner so it may require an extra coat when building up after the grain is filled.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Thanks. Last night I sprayed on a coat of shellac (about1 1/2 lb cut). I also brushed on a little shellac which I tinted with transtint dye, to darken a few areas of sapwood.
I am really interested in the grain filling method for the Philadelphia secretary, and will try it on scrap first.
Thanks
Jay
Jay,Since you have a spray gun it should be pretty easy to get an excellent finish with shellac.One last thing is that I have recently started using the Abralon pads for rubbing out. I use the 1000 grit and 2000 grirt the most. They work great with shellac. When used with mineral or parrafin oil for rubbing out it is very easy to get an even sheen across the whole surface and the pads seem to last a long time.Also, before topcoating the grain filler make sure that the oil has evaporated, no smell, before topcoating.Where did you get the por-o-pac filler? I'm assuming it is the oil based version. I can't seem to find it anymore. Most suppliers have switched to the water based. This is why I now make my own.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
I believe it was Woodworker's supply.
Jay
Jay,Thanks, I'll check them out.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Hi J.P.,
I'm curious to know why you prefer to use turpentine, as opposed to mineral spirits, naphtha, etc. Is is because of the longer "open-time," or are there other characteristics that inform your decision?
Thanks,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I had the same question. I tried it with mineral spirits on scrap, and it seemed to work well. What is the advantage of the Japan drier, and what is your source for purchasing it? Also, exactly how much to you use? (eg 1 tsp per pint or per quart - or does it matter?)
Jay
Hi Jay,
My method is to wet-sand using Liberon finishing oil; the oil & sawdust slurry fills the pores, the oil pops the grain, and Liberon's formulation polymerizes quickly, requiring no added Japan driers.
On the occasions when I've had a need for Japan drier, my finish test pieces weren't curing quickly enough, and I ended-up adding Japan drier to my finish formula,fine-tuning the quantity as I completed the test pieces. It's been so long since I bought mine, I don't remember where I bought it.
I'm still curious about the use of turpentine...-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
jazzdogg,I guess that it is mostly tradition. I found the recipe on the back of the can of oil and I have also seen the same recipe in an old finishing book.I suppose you could use whatever is on hand, mineral spirit or naptha to add to the oil. Just a personal preference and since I have been using this recipe for years without fail, I don't see any real need to change.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Hi J.P.,
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity!
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I recently completed a table made of walnut and wanted to fill the grain. I looked at the commercial fillers, and decided to go with boiled linseed oil and 4F pumice. I followed that with dark walnut Danish oil and then gel polyurethane, 7 or 8 very thin coats with one day between coats. I have attached a couple of pictures to show the result. I have had no issues with the pumice lightening up.
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