Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 16, 2003 05:06am | #1

   Mr. Muffin, below is a copy of a post I made a little while back on hide glue.  Salient to you are two facts:  the grams strength influences gel- and setup-time; and all hide glue made in USA is made by the same manufacturer.  Different sellers of hide glue may provide different gram strengths. 

   This doesn't answer all your questions, but it's a start. 

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   From June 30, 2003

   Michael Dresdner has an article in the current Woodworker's Journal on using hide glue, how it works, how liquid differs from hot, etc.  It's not the definitive how-to guide on hide glue probably, but I found it very helpful with some decision-making about certain glue-ups.

   Turns out that hide glue comes in different "gram strengths" which affect how fast it sets up/gels.  He states that it's available from 80 to 512, with the lower gram strenths offering longer working time.  What WWers use is generally between "192 or 251."  Another interesting note -- there is only one company in N. America that actually makes hide glue, Milligan and Higgins (http://www.milligan1868.com) . 

   The hot glue variety is of interest to me for quickly gluing up mitered face frame-type things, like a simple picture frame, as the joints could just be rubbed together and they would set real quick.  Dresdner's information (contrary to the post above) indicates that store-bought liquid hide glue takes a half-hour or longer to gel, and I can vouch for this.  There really isn't a huge time-crunch when using the liquid stuff.  One disadvantage of liquid hide glue over PVAs is that the LHG can take a long time (like a few days) to fully cure -- I was totally mystified by this when using it a few weeks ago.

   Dresdner lists a number of advantages that hide glue has over our more modern glues.  The article was very interesting!

   *********Click here for original thread

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   
   

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   Edited 7/15/2003 10:12:59 PM ET by forestgirl

   
   

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   Edited 7/15/2003 10:19:59 PM ET by forestgirl

2. 
   RMillard | Jul 16, 2003 01:58pm | #2

   I use the 251 strength glue for everything. This is usually ground while the lower strength glue comes in a pearl form ( I think). Some hide glues are too week to use for wood working, while others are too strong ( they would gel to fast) . I know nothing about the process, but these strong glues are used to chip glass, so they must be quite strong. Anything you buy from a woodworking supply company will work. I get mine from The Olde Mill Cabinet Shoppe because their glue is high quality and cheap.

   A lot is made about the water to glue ratio, but I just pour the glue in a can add water until all the glue is submerged , and let it sit for an hour or so. Then heat it up and add water and a small amount of white vinegar until the glue flows off the brush in a thin steady stream. As you use the glue it will have to have water added to it, to maintain this consistency. Some people advocate heating and cooling the glue once before use, but I have never done this, and have seen no difference in the glue after this has been done. The vinegar seems to help with the initial tack, which especially useful in veneering Why vinegar does this I don’t know. Working this way makes a glue that is far stronger then the wood itself and much better than your typical white/yellow glue.

                                      Rob Millard

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 16, 2003 07:39pm | #3

   Here's an interesting page on hide glue at the Deller Conservation Group's web site: http://deller.com/newpage8.htm

   They say simply that vinegar increases the "wetting" properties of hide glue.

   I was surprised to read that you can make hide glue waterproof by adding aluminum sulfate, and make it more flexible by adding glycerin.

   BTW, according to what I've read, virtually all glues are stronger than the wood they bind.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   ron61 | Jul 17, 2003 12:53am | #4

   Thanks for the info.

   So the 251 gram strength is the best for wood working.

   All the Hide Glue I have found in wood working catalogs  were the 192 strength.

   I assume I need to use a Natural Bristle Brush. Which type Round of Flat? 

1. 
   RMillard | Jul 17, 2003 02:10pm | #6

   For joints I use the typical acid brushes, the cheap ones with the rolled metal handle. For larger work like veneer, I use any paint brush that is handy, without regard to what the bristles are made of. I’m quite lazy, so I often forget to clean out the brushes, leaving the larger ones suitable for use as a mallet. Being lazy also keeps me from trying to clean them out, so I just throw them out

   Rob Millard

3. 
   dlwheel | Jul 17, 2003 05:51am | #5

   Give Eugene Bjorn Thordahl (Bjorn Industries) a call (704-364-1186)... He will send you a some very good info on hide glue... they sell in all the gram strengths in 5# increments.

   It is cheap... give it a try... sounds more complicated than it is.

   Best to you,

   David