Replies

1. 
   DaveinPa | Oct 19, 2005 04:07pm | #1

   The only thing harder then granite is Diamond. With that said you know where I am going. The machines and bits that the granite manufacters use are massive. I saw and handle a router bit (?) a few years ago for shaping the edge of a granite kitchen counter top. It had a 1" shank and was about  16"-18" long and was impregnated with diamond bits. They told me the cost but I forget what it was. Lots of luck to you.

   
   

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   Edited 10/19/2005 9:12 am by DaveinPa

1. 
   geraldartman | Oct 19, 2005 04:26pm | #2

   I have had granite counters installed and watched them do the sink cut outs twice. A simple 4-6in grinder with a diamond wheel is all they used. The grinders are $30-$60. The wheels are not that much. They free hand cut the straight lines up to the radius of the corners and then used the flat side from underneath to come up about half way for each corner. then with one guy holding the cutout using suction cups, they worked over the corners, first one side almost thru and then the other through and the two remaining snapped off from the stress.The big issue is edge finishing. That takes the specialized 'big' tools. The stuff I was installing was 3/4 thick. 1/2 tiles would be even simpler. Tile saws will cut them.

2. 
   generalkael | Oct 19, 2005 06:03pm | #7

   Granite is not even close to being the next hardest thing compared to diamond. Granite is between a 6 and 7 on Moh's scale and diamond is a 10. Remember that granite is made of feldspar, mica and quartz. Here are a few things in between:6. Feldspar
   6 1/2 Hardened steel file, Common window glass, Granite
   7. Quartz, Garnet, Beryl
   8. Topaz
   9. Corundum
   10. DiamondScott
   Slacker Extraordinaire
   Specializing in nothing but knowledge in everything.

2. 
   joejoe | Oct 19, 2005 04:51pm | #3

   Manny,
   I don't have an answer to your question.......but have you considered using soapstone?

   I am in the process of redoing our kitchen and the Mrs. is all hot for soapstone countertops. Though I have zippo personal experience with this material, I have read (that must make me an expert!) that soapstone can be worked with carbide tipped woodworking tools.

   Please forgive me for high-jacking this thread, but does anyone with any hands on experience working soapstone care to discuss the ins and outs?
   --joejoe

1. 
   h12721 | Oct 22, 2005 06:30pm | #12

   Is't  soapstone kind of soft for a top?

   Hilmar

1. 
   joejoe | Oct 23, 2005 03:40pm | #15

   h12721,Soft is a relative term. Soapstone is softer than granite, but it is still plenty hard for a countertop. Supposedly, any surface stains that occur can be sanded out. It also doesn't stain very deeply at all. As a work surface, I think soapstone is harder and less porous than concrete.Now having said all that, I have to actually buy a few slabs and work it. Then I can speak from first hand experience, and not from what I have read only.--joejoe

2. 
   Biscardi | Oct 23, 2005 04:28pm | #16

   Soapstone is easily worked with wodworking tools. You can cut it with a hacksaw and it takes a routered edge well. You can't really polish it, but you can get it very smooth with progressively finer papers and a little mineral oil makes it glow.

   Get sound assurances there is no asbestos in it. Some of the soapstone here in VA is full of it. It is the dustiest work you will ever do. I would recommend you set up sawhorses OUTSIDE and do the heavy sanding outside.

   It is unfortunately a very soft material. Although easily sanded out, it scratches very easily. It goes for about 60-80$ here.

   Frank

1. 
   joejoe | Oct 24, 2005 03:01am | #19

   Biscardi,Thanks for the heads-up about asbestos in soapstone! I had no idea.--joejoe

3. 
   desertrat | Oct 19, 2005 05:03pm | #4

   Have you considered using granite tile?  Much less expensive and if you make very tight seams, hardly noticeable.

4. 
   Taproot | Oct 19, 2005 05:06pm | #5

   Manny,

   FWIW, I'd highly suggest you get the shop to do the cut outs. Granite counter tops are usually 5/4 and even with a grinder and a carbide wheel, you'll be at it for a while. The router bits that the granite shop guys use cost $400+ (according to the one I use the most).

   The carbide wheel works great on tiles, but on thick granite, you'll be working for a while.

   If we haven't talked you out of it and want some advice of doing the cut, let me know.

   Tim

1. 
   Manny | Oct 19, 2005 05:17pm | #6

   As always, it is great to receive such good advice from you all.. I like the idea of granite tile... cutting it myself.. mmmm and that soapstone, I am going to dig into it..

   Thanks

1. 
   dustinf | Oct 22, 2005 06:58pm | #13

   I like the idea of granite tile

   It's your budget, and your bathroom.  But, I would avoid granite tile.  It never looks right.  To me, it always looks like a budget fix.  Which it is, but not always appropriate for a custom bathroom. 

   Real granite isn't  that expensive.  I buy 3/4" granite vanity tops for $100/ft.  That is with a simple round over edge, sink cut out, and under mount hardware installed.  Most vanities are under 4', so I can usually sell the tops for under $500, well worth it to complement a custom vanity.

   Also, There are laminates available now that look very similar to granite.  I would consider this before granite tile.

    

1. 
   Manny | Oct 22, 2005 07:16pm | #14

   you are right, I was shopping around here in Fl, and found many 35-40/sqft.. that is what i am going to use

   thanks a lot

5. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 19, 2005 08:04pm | #8

   Oh Mama! what pricing!

   I'd say cheep for the work involved... I was a granit worker in my past life.. We just had a rope and sand and water!

6. 
   BenM | Oct 19, 2005 08:12pm | #9

   One other thing you should consider - granite dust is toxic.  It should be wet when you cut it.

7. 
   WhatKnot | Oct 19, 2005 08:22pm | #10

   Manny, granite is beautiful and expensive and unless you are experienced in working with solid surface materials you should probably leave the work to someone else. There is a less expensive alternative which is Quartz. Not as pretty but certainly just  as durable and less expensive. Check out Home Depot.

   I've been playing with concrete molds and staining techniques lately. I haven't got the process down to what anyone would consider art yet but I have produced some acceptable bull nosed counter tops and even one with nice traditional ogee edging right out of the mold. Getting the mix right for the ingredients available in your area is the part that is difficult but its also what keeps the cost down.

1. 
   Manny | Oct 19, 2005 08:45pm | #11

   Send some pictures in! THanks

8. 
   DennisS | Oct 23, 2005 08:51pm | #17

   Manny -

   There are several types of granite. Some harder than others but all hard. There's marble, limestone, sandstone (yes, very dense sandstone suitable for countertops - I have it in my kitchen) and soapstone to name several varieties of natural stone available for countertop applications. Most all of them are better dealt with using diamond tools; saw blades and profile cutters. While there are "dry" diamond tools available, working stone wet is the prefered method for highly polished finishes. You can find diamond circular blades that fit in an ordinary portable power circular saw for rough cutting. You can find router bits with diamond faced cutting surfaces that can also be worked dry. But in all cases, I don't think the finish will be as finely polished as the factory top.

   Marble is several degrees softer than granite and would be easier, in my opinion, to work by hand. For a bathroom counter application it would be sufficiently durable although its porosity would be subject to staining unless the surface is well sealed and maintained. Soapstone is actually the softest but surprizingly the densest. Thus its use as laboratory worktop surfaces.

   If you have a stone supplier in your area that deals in soapstone, give him/her a visit to see if they have any scraps or off-cuts you can have or buy for a nominal sum. Try working it with carbide tools to see if it's something you're willing to tackle. Work outdoors if possible with a strong fan behind you blowing the dust *away* from you. Soapstone is basically just highly compressed talc. Not something you want building up in your respitory system.

   I'm not a stone mason. I've only been around a lot of stonemasons on various building projects and tried to pick up as much knowledge about it as osmosis will permit. From the precious few little stone slab projects I've tried around my own house, I've reached the conclusion that an entire countertop, sink cutout and edge profile is something I prefer to send out - money well spent if you consider your time worth anything at all.

   An ounce experimentation is worth a pound of advice.

9. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 24, 2005 01:36am | #18

   or am I getting into trouble by doing it myself?
   Ya ever jump off a bridge onto the railway track and a train comming?