I really should have thought this through better.
My hand will soon be fine (nothing severed, only a 1/8″ kerf), but the right glove, at least, is a total loss.
Ow.
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Replies
John, I bet that gave you a wake-up. Can you tell us what you were doing and how it happened?
I would have thought that type of glove is not appropriate in a woodwork shop-too heavy and clumsy.
Table saw...???
I hope the healing process is both quick and problem free John...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Personally I would never wear gloves on any woodworking machine. I think you're lucky your hand wasn't sucked into the blade. I hate to see gloves near a skilsaw-same reason...my 2 cents...
Best Regards,
silver
I sometimes wear snug fitting rubber coated gloves in my shop like the ones in the attached photo. They give me better grip than bare hands and added protection from cuts, etc. After reading some of the comments I'm curious if I'm foolish by wearing them????There are more old drunkards than old doctors. Ben Franklin
The risk with a glove is that it will get snagged by the machine and pull your hand in. If your gloves are sturdy enough that they wouldn't readily tear if they got caught, then you would be taking a risk working around a circular saw, bandsaw, or drill press and possibly other tools depending on the operation.
John W.
Makes sense. Thanks.There are more old drunkards than old doctors. Ben Franklin
Useful debate about the wisdom of wearing gloves.
I wear gloves for yard work, for operating my chainsaw and my line trimmer (which I think is actually more dangerous than the chainsaw) and for moving timber and panel material around in the shop. But when it comes to pushing stuff through a machine, they come off. I've never, to my recollection, thought that out, just done it!
Malcolm
An who says intuition is purely fiction?
"I sometimes wear snug fitting rubber coated gloves in my shop like the ones in the attached photo. They give me better grip than bare hands and added protection from cuts, etc. After reading some of the comments I'm curious if I'm foolish by wearing them????"
BBP, although you describe those gloves (in the attached picture) as "snug fitting" I don't think I would wear them while using machinery. I do, however, wear the very tight fitting and thin neoprene gloves that came out about a year ago. These are the only gloves I wear around power tools, and mostly for table saw work to increase grip. I'll try and find a picture for you.
Darn, I can't find a picture on-line. They are similar to the ubiquitous Atlas gardening and work gloves, but they are a tighter knit, fit much closer to the hand, and have a neoprene coating rather than a rubber coating.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 12/21/2005 5:49 pm by forestgirl
I'd be interested in finding out more about the neoprene gloves you speak of. Do you remember where you bought them?There are more old drunkards than old doctors. Ben Franklin
I buoght them at the hardware store. I will get the name and find a picture somewhere today!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Are they something like the gloves medical people wear? They are good for traction, keep your hands clean, tear easily, and are cheap. I use them sometimes but I've not used them on machinery yet.
Nope, they are work gloves of a sort. I'll find them today and let everyone know.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Bleu,
In addition to the increased likelihood of an injury caused by long hair, gloves, loose sleeves, jewelry, etc., I always think about trying to remove a blood-soaked glove without making the underlying injury worse, or at least more painful.
I've had to sit for over an hour soaking bandages that had stuck to an open wound while waiting to see an ER doc; the thought of such a delay being caused by gloves is reason enough to avoid wearing them while wood working.
BEADG,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Man that dont look to good! Glad you came out of it as well as you did.
I worked at a shop where wearing gloves to run any of the power tools would get you a ticket out the door, I guess I see why.
Doug
At least you still need new gloves. Looks like you came close to NOT needing new gloves -ever. What dija do?
John, your post is certainly an eye-catcher, but it's simply sensationalism to post the pictures and not provide an explanation, to wit: what were you doing, what tool were you working with, what safety precaution were you (or were you NOT) taking, how did the accident happen?
I will agree with the above sentiments about gloves: If you weren't working with a chainsaw those gloves should have been in a drawer. They are bulky and loose and have flared cuffs. Realllllllly dangerous.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Yep, skin heals...but gloves, they cost money!
Be more careful!
How did it happen?
David C
My gloves are much harder to find - but at least I can do fractions on my hand now thanks to the jointer...sorry to see/hear about your accident
BTW, the gloves aren't a total loss...just mix a little green in there and it'll cancel it right out! ;-)
It's just slow typing left-handed. Here's the short version.
Was making zero-clearance for the TS. No problem doing it in the past for dado, just clamp in place and raise slowly.
That didn't work for the Woodworker II. Blade was too big and contacted the uncut insert, so the saw wouldn't start with plate already in place. Therefore, had to lower plate onto spinning blade. Stupidly, did it by hand, just couldn't think of another way. I was so careful avoiding the path of the plate if it was kicked out (it was, of course), I didn't realize where my hand would go (onto the blade) if the plate disappeared instantly while I pressed it down (it did).
Someone else asked already for advice on making these, but got no help. I'll think of something. I guess I'll make a jig to hold it and lower it down.
Going to the hand surgeon today. Tendons were nicked but not severed. Did not get to the bone, or so the E.R. doc thought. That WWII is one sharp blade!
Forestgirl, sensational would have been the hand, not the gloves. :)
Wow, I thought for sure it was going to be outside with a skill saw (circular saw), and I thought it was probably holding it above the waist, with the left hand, sawing something vertically. Oh well I'll toss that woodworking mishap forensic analysis merit badge back in the garbage dump.
John, I'm glad you didn't lose fingers or the use of your hand.
There's, of course, a way to make the ZC insert that's safe, you know, involving clamping the ZC insert over top of the insert that's already there (2 2 X 4s holding it down, straddling where the blade's going to come up, scured to the saw table with pipe clamps or K-bodies at each end) and getting the kerf started, but I'm sure you already figured it out. Take care.
PS: If there's not an insert already there, like for instance you were restoring an old saw, you would have to make a sacrificial shim.
I had to do something similar, as on my saw the blade at its lowest is still higher than the bottom of the insert. Used double-sided tape to attach it to the factory insert (next time I just won't untape them after pattern-routing the sides of the ZCI), and held it in place with a long block clamped to the fence. Making a 45° ZCI was trickier; had to rout a groove in the back.
Get a 9" blade to get you started with the inserts.
Or a 7 1/4 inch circular saw blade - I didn't think of that. You could put two of the hollow ground plywood cutting circular saw blades on the arbor and get the kerf started easy as pie.
To make a ZC insert in the future...simply put on one full blade from your dado set (assuming it is an 8" set) and then raise that one blade up and through. Then put the 10" blade back on and raise it the rest of the way.
Edited 12/19/2005 6:41 pm ET by dvan1901
Sounds easier to get a straight kerf your way than pushing up through the old insert. Both methods, of course, about a hundred times smarter than what I actually did.
Thanks everyone!My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
In the past I've used the factory insert with the level screws backed off so the insert sits in the table slightly. I then line up and clamp the blank insert over the top which sits in the recess just slightly because of the backed of leveling screws. It clears the blade (also a WWII). I am then able to raise the blade and create the insert.
Edited 12/20/2005 8:23 am ET by RonK
You can mill a recess to provide clearance for the blade using a 1/4" straight router bit at the router table. It doesn't have to be very big. I've seen a similar arrangement in commercial zero clearance insert blanks.
"I didn't realize where my hand would go (onto the blade) if the plate disappeared instantly while I pressed it down (it did)." This is such an important part of this story. We all need to have a great appreciation for how fast things happen on the table saw and the forces that are involved, including what direction things travel when something goes wrong. Don't know if it's still around, but there used to be a video of someone (K. Mehler, maybe?) demonstrating kick-back using a piece of rigid foam. Gets your attention! I've had a piece of thin plywood, basically square-shaped, get away on the table saw, and what it does is basically spin across the top of the blade. If my hand had been in the wrong place, it would have been uuuuuggggggly.
So glad you're pretty OK!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
My surgery is tomorrow (tendon repair). Will save me from heavy lifting for the next few weeks. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Had exploratory surgery Thursday, to make sure there was no tendon damage. This was on the recommendation of the hand surgeon I saw Monday.
Good thing I decided on this "just in case" procedure. One tendon for the ring finger had been 80% severed. Had I just allowed the surface wound to heal, the tendon would have remained damaged. According to my doctor, a future strain on that finger would likely have torn the tendon apart, requiring surgical repair that would leave me with only a restricted range of movement.
Since the doc was instead able to do the repair while the tendon was partially intact, the prognosis is much better. He'll evaluate it when the cast comes off in two weeks, but I'll probably lose very little strength or range of movement.
So what did I learn?
First, I learned not to stop my danger analysis with consideration of kickback alone. Dumb as it sounds, I did the whole setup thinking I was being careful, because I'd figured out how to ensure I was out of the trajectory. In particular, I learned that I should consider the problem all the way through, like where might my body parts go if things go wrong? I was counting on the new insert to keep me from the blade. I carefully checked the depth of the blade with a straightedge. No way, with the insert in place, I could touch the blade. QED, I'm safe. Oops.
Second, I learned that you can't count on books or this site to give you complete information. I have several dozen WW books, including nearly a dozen that discuss making throat plates. Of those, only one mentions clamping, and none gives practical advice on handling a situation where a full-sized blade contacts the raw blank, requiring an alternate technique.
Finally, I learned to listen more to myself when I felt nervous. I should have pestered someone until I got a good answer, but faced with doing without, I simply proceeded with my own bad, stupid, unsafe plan. That was not a smart decision.
It was a moderately costly lesson, but I was lucky enough to dodge the worst of it. I still have all my fingers and they should eventually be fully functional.
I hope nobody minds me posting all this personal stuff. I will keep it to this one thread. And thank you to those of you wishing me well, here and in email, in spite of my stupidity for an eventful moment. First, I'm no good at typing with my left hand. And this is embarassing to write about, as I have no wish to admit my stupidity, but I'm hoping maybe seeing it will help some other novice avoid an injury. And maybe it will motivate some of you experts to pitch in on some of these boring sorts of queries when someone asks a question that relates to a potentially dangerous operation, before there's an injury.
PS I hope nobody feels I'm blaming my injury on "the experts" for not pitching in. That would be the moral equivalent of driving with bad brakes and blaming the accident on the mechanic whose shop was closed when you brought your car by Sunday evening. My injury was my fault alone. I do wish, though, we had some way of knowing how many injuries have been averted by all the good assistance offered on this board. I'd bet it's hundreds.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Hi John,
I hope you get well soon. Your odyssey reminds me of an incident I had a few years back. I was building a set of 6 dining chairs for a friend. Each chair had ten back spindles. I was tapping the very last spindle home when the seat cracked. I quickly, and without safety glasses, pulled the spindle out before the glue could swell the wood. You guessed it, the spindle went right into my eye, or so I initially thought. Luckily it grazed my eye lid and eyeball. I expected blood to come gushing out but I was extremely fortunate. I now wear safety glasses, earplugs and don't use power tools when I'm tired.
Merry Christmas,
BleuThere are more old drunkards than old doctors. Ben Franklin
"I hope nobody minds me posting all this personal stuff." Oh heavens! Not to worry! This kind of communication, along with the introspection, is one of the things that makes a WWing forum worth the time we spend here. Perhaps, if you have time, you will go over to Woodworker's Central and post your experience in their Accident Survey, an on-line "database of what NOT to do with your woodworking tools." You could also post a synopsis in the forum.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I cut the end of my left index finger (I am left handed) up pretty bad on my table saw 20 years ago, when I was just starting out in woodworking. It was not a safe set-up. I have lost some feeling - the end is always numb. It makes a great safety reminder every time I turn the saw switch on with it.
Main thing I learned: safety is a responsibility I owe to myself.
How quickly it happens!!!I'll never forget the first, and only, time I tried to feed work into a bearing guided router bit without the starter pin. Fingers follow the feed-force - and then there is the blood on the table. I was lucky with only minor loss of flesh but I had some very sore fingers for several weeks.Jerry
John, there is a safer way. Buy your insert blanks from someone like Leecraft. They are already recessed when you buy them. If you think they are too expensive, I would have a second look at how much you're paying for the one you made.Steve
"You can either be smart or pleasant, I was once smart but now I'm pleasant. I like being pleasant better." Jimmy Stewart - Harvey
I've gotten really good information here. I'm quite confident I'll be able to do this safely now, thanks. :)
My wife got me a beautiful LN block rabbet plane for Christmas. I can't wait to get out of this cast and try it out!My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Hope your recovery is quick.
Be glad you don't live in the boonies. It is a 30+ minute "race" at high speed through winding curves to get medical help -- unless you want to take a chance on the volunteer EMTs arriving before dying of blood loss. :) I am glad my better half doesn't faint at the sight of blood. Together, we have cleaned a lot of wild game of all sizes.
After your post, I plan to be even more careful!A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Yeah, but seeing game blood is different from seeing people blood.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
If you look on the bottom of a lot of zero clearance inserts, they dado the bottom since it really doesn't need all of the material to work. Since most dado sets are smaller diameter, you can hold the insert down with a board so you can remove some of the bottom, making way for your WWII. You needed about 1/4" less, right? Another way would be to make extra blanks and stack them (carpet tape or?) with the area removed from the bottom insert where the slot will be. That way, you're only sawing into the top insert. Make sure it's secured before starting. All things considered, you were very lucky.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Therefore, had to lower plate onto spinning blade. Stupidly, did it by hand, just couldn't think of another way.
Oh. The word for this incident isn't "accident". "Inevitible" is more like it. 'glad you weren't hurt worse.
Was making zero-clearance for the TS. No problem doing it in the past for dado, just clamp in place and raise slowly.
You had the solution to your problem in your sights... you could have used just one side blade from your dado set to make the zero clearance.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
A few years ago my Dad got me a set of "cut proof" kevlar gloves to use in the shop.
I put one of them on a 2x4 and touched it to a spinnning tablesaw blade.
The kevlar got snagged in a gullet/tooth and the whole she bang got sucked betwen the blade and the insert and stalled the saw. It gave me a sick feeling.
Frank
From the time I started working around shop machinery I was trained to remove all jewlery, roll up any long sleeves and to certainly not wear any type of gloves! Maybe long rough boards that you feed through a planer.
I have cut myself on my saw and was lucky not to lose my right thumb and forfinger. I did shorten my thumb some and my finger is now misshapened. Two skin grafts, $20,000 in operations, about two months to recover (out of work) and a very talented doctor made me whole again. I now stop and think when I am about to do a close or "risky" cut. I have this mental image of what happened and I find a better way to make the cut.
Hope you heal well, watch for infection!
Gloves.. Yes, I was stupid.. Have been most of my life..
Cutting down a BIG Maple that was busting up my Garage floor..
I had a rope on a limb I was cuting off.. Had a rope around my hand..
ER Doctor told me.. Good thing ya had a glove on that ripped off! You would have lost the whole ARM!
Good luck with the hand.Hope you don't have any problems with it and it heals well.Advice, use your gloves to move wood around the shop.but when you get to the mach. (ANY) TAKE THEM OFF.I saw a fellow who was working on a table saw with gloves on and had to end up learning how to do a lot of things with his left hand.THREE fingers completly ripped off.thumb mangled.Not much use now.Good luck my friend and have a very Merry Christmas and a SAFE new year.
Ken
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