Grizzly 12″ Exrtreme Series Tablesaw
woodguru | Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I can’t say I have seen any discussions about Grizzly’s New 12″ Extreme Series Tablesaw with riving knife, if there were any maybe someone can point out the highlights, good or bad.
I will be purchasing a New Cabinet saw soon, I have a Grizzly 10″ cabinet saw now but would like to upgrade to a saw with a riving knife. I have several Grizzly machines and are pretty well comfortable with the quality.
I am very meticulous about setting up machinery properly but still have had a couple of accidents due to kickback, hopefully a riving knife will help reduce future accidents.
I have not seen any reviews in any Woodworking magazines but With the price Grizzly has for this machine it’s worth a look at.
I appreciate any comments.
Replies
I don't know much about the Griz 12" saw, other than it looks really interesting.
Did you have a splitter in place when you experienced the kickback? If so, I doubt a riving knife would have changed the outcome. If the splitter was removed because it didn't allow a given operation due to it's height, then a riving knife may have helped under those circumstances.
The saw does look interesting, it has some good features.
The kickback occurred while the splitter was off, both instances were when I was cutting thin 3/4" strips for molding. The push stick that I utilize is by Bench Dog, it helps hold the wood down while making the cut to prevent it from riding up over the blade. Even with the push stick and a perfectly parallel fence I still had problems.
I must admit the one thing I do not like on my current cabinet saw is the flimsy blade guard and splitter. I am probably like most people and just leave them off.
I think that with a riving knife which will not raise up higher than the blade may be allot easier to work with and not get in the way.
Thanks for your input.
I set my fence a couple of thousandths of an inch out on the outfeed end, instead of perfectly straight. This gives just a tad of relief for the wood to not bind on the fence.
Your point is well taken, I do have my fence set this way, it actually recommends it in my owners manual.
I have never had a problem with dark or burnt spots on the wood after cuts which can indicate binding or a dull blade so I have always felt everything was in check.
I have no comment about the saw . . . rather, about the kickback.Ripping molding, of course, would be an excellent means of demonstrating kickback. For the benefit and safety of some other readers, if not yourself, technique should be emphasized here.Put simply, molding should be first shaped from larger stock; then ripped such that the narrow strip is on the blade side opposite the fence. Also, a vertical featherboard could be invaluable.A riving knife is certainly desirable, largely as a splitter more apt to be used because of its configuration (as you point out). Its traveling with the blade's axis is also critical to its effectiveness. I do believe, though, that table saw manufacturers are prone to hype riving knives and that that awareness should be in the mind of the potential buyer (who is facing many factors regarding the replacement and selection of a table saw).
I'm with you. I have the 1023slx, and if I could justify it, I would upgrade. Mine works so good, can see spending the money. Buy it and post a review. Take charge be the leader of the pack!
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
woodguru,
I have the 12 inch saw from Grizzly, great machine except mine is the professional model instead of the extreme. I see little valu in the riving knife over the spliter . when I had kick back with mine it certainly wouldn't have saved my arm from breaking, the piece was too small, it broke off and got caught by the blade which flung the little piece hard enough to break the arm..
Piece about 1/4 inch thick, two inches wide and maybe 4 inches long.. Hard maple.. minor skin break.
frenchy,
That's horrifying. Sorry to hear that. I assume you had a full recovery.
But that's no reason to say a riving knife is no better than a thin splitter. I think the riving knife has many advantages, the least of which is that it remains on the machine under circumstances in which the splitter must be removed.
Your experience could not be called kickback in the sense that we most often apply that term. Your accident was a serious malfunction on several levels. If a piece of material breaks off in a machine that has spinning parts and the broken piece is then thrown out at the operator, that is a failure of a totally different kind.
Was the blade guard in place?
Rich
Rich 14,
Sorry, I think you've misread it, I was sawing wood strips to make a butcher block curved walkway and a piece of the wood strip broke off.
Small little piece. I would never believe that something so small could break my arm..
I had started with the guard in place but the pawls kept dropping in and trapping the strips which meant I had to stop, shut off the saw and then get the pawl back up in place. after about the fourth time it dropped down I pulled the guard off.. that's when it happened. I'm old and the doctors goofed so it never really healed perfectly like my other broken bones have. The onset of changing weather, causes my bone to ache..
Yeah,
I read it right the first time.
Ouch!
5 HP on the single phase.. 4" depth of cut and has a riving knife!
That speaks volumes for itself, even without a review. I looked it over at the IWF and seems as well made as the 1023 SL's, even though I did not have time (other priorities) to crawl under the hood and check the trunnions. etc.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Hey Sarge,
your thoughts were the same as mine when I saw the HP and a riving knife, looks like a pretty good deal. I did notice on the description that it only comes with one steel extension wing which I'm sure helps them to bring the cost down a little. I too watched the video from the IWF show and it looks impressive for the price.
I guess the only drawback for me would be the fact that I would need to purchase new blades and dado set since the arbor is 1".
Looking through there magazine though I did notice they came out with new blades and dado sets for this saw at a very reasonable price, but there again what is the quality like.
Morning woodguru...
I actually saw the saw at IWF, but have not seen the video. The draw-back to any 12" saw IMO is price and blade manufacturers have limited choices in blade tooth count on 12" as they are not the standard fare for most of us. (Did you catch that Charlie Mac?) :>)
I was strongly considering the Griz 12" a few weeks ago as I dedicate my TS to ripping and I do see quite a bit of stock over 3" that a 10" TS can't handle. But.. I can handle that on my BS, even though it is a much slower process. The Griz price is right the riving knife was a plus as I have used one for 4 years on what was my current TS.
But.. while purchasing a new 8" jointer last week-end.. a factory Re-conditioned Uni-saw-saw made it home on the back of my pick-up as I was offered it at a price I couldn't refuse.. and I mean couldn't refuse. :>)
But I fully retire in another 2 years and at that point we will see. Maybe the Uni-saw gets sold (?) and we take another look at what's available in 12" at a price I can justify for my needs. I cannot justify a 12" with the Euro models as I have no real need of paying for a slider capable of doing panels that I don't use (solid wood is my game)!
But if you are in the market for a reasonably priced 12" the Griz has got those shoes filled as I see it with a riving knife on-board. So...
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Sarge,
thanks for the kind information. Sounds like you made a great deal on the Uni-saw, enjoy it, i'm sure it will meet all your expectations.
I have looked into 12" saw blades and I seem to find the tooth numbers and geometry that I like, although the prices are higher.
I will do a little more research on the Grizzly and if nothing changes I may halfto try it out.
Thanks for the good information....
"guess the only drawback for me would be the fact that I would need to purchase new blades and dado set since the arbor is 1"."You could go to a machine shop and have the holes enlarged and spacers made for the old machines. They do it all the time for shapers and saws.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"I am very meticulous about setting up machinery properly but still have had a couple of accidents due to kickback, hopefully a riving knife will help reduce future accidents. "
One comment is that whilst the Grizzly has a riving knife, it still doesn't have a Euro short rip fence (or sliding position rip fence plate) - you need BOTH together to effectively overcome the vast majority of kickbacks. Having a surfeit of power (and 5HP on 12in seems pretty good to me) also makes ripping much easier. Maybe Sarge would like to eloborate.
Scrit
Evening Scrit...
I have seen a 3 HP bog ripping 8/4 lignum vitae. It will struggle somewhat in black locust but if you remain patient you will get the task done. The vitae will eat your sharp blade alive but I have never had (yet)the 8/4 bog on a neighbors's 5 HP PM that I have excess too.
The 3 HP motor will handle about anything, but if you get over 8/4 you pay a heavier tax for results. 5 HP is not necessary in most cases , but on those occasions that power comes into play.. better to have it and "glide" than not have it and "slide" IMO.
The other advantage to the 12" as I see it is that you get a 4" depth capacity opposed to 3" on a 10" blade. This actually comes into play in my scenario more often than needing more power. I often get my hands on 16/4 stock at a very decent price. I have to take it to the BS to size it down as I can't handle it without turning it over and double cutting the same kerf. The 5 HP with a 4" depth of cut makes a nice package when you work a lot of 12/4 an 16/4.
The riving knife is self explanatory regardless of what size TS IMO. So is a Euro short fence that is not being discussed, but if one is interested you can build one relatively quickly and put it on any saw.. period.
Back to the shop where I am building a Euro short fence to put over a new Bessey that came with a saw that just showed up in my shop. Guess you can call it a Euro-Bessey. ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Sarge, I have seen Euro style fences, how far foward of the back of the blade does the end of the fence need to be? I have looked into this, and other than estimating (from pictures) I am not sure how far past the blade to end the fence. Any insight?
Donkey
Evening wood donkey..
I made my current short fence so it will slide forward and backward. I position the end of the short fence about 1/2" beyond the final cut point as no fence is needed from that point.
To determine the final cut point, run a piece of 1"- (4/4) slowly though your current fence. When the stock is completely severed, hit your kill switch and let the blade stop spinning. Tick the spot on your long fence with a sharpie and number it 1". Repeat with a 1 1/2" (6/4) and mark it 1 1/2" or 6/4. Move up in increments with 8/4 and 12/4. Stop at 12/4 (3") unless you have a 12" TS capable of thicker 4" 16/4 stock.
Pay careful attention to where the stock is completely severed. You will find that it happens around forward tooth 5-6 on 1" stock. About a tooth later as you progress in 1/2" increments. You will never have any stock you are capable of cutting not completely severed by the center tooth on the blade which is the highest point in the arc.
So... if you are going to use a fixed short fence... end the fence about 1/2" before center-highest tooth in the arc and don't sweat the fine tune. Either way you are better off than before you added the shorty even if you don't fine tune to squeeze water from the turnip!
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Thanks, I will try it this afternoon, if the wife and kids allow me too.
Donkey
You don't need to actually cut anything- with the saw turned off, just place a piece of wood between the fence and blade. Move it forward to the point where the wood meets the blade's outer edge on the operator side, since that's the same point where the last fibers are cut. Are you saying you use a fence that's only about 16" long?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
12" long on the current saw and 16" on the one I'm building later this evening for the new (new to me.. factory reco) Uni-saw and Bieseymer. The table is deeper on the Uni-saw than current junk-saw. The "short's" cradle over the existing fences and are adjustable to slide stem to stern to co-incide with the thickness of stock being ripped as I already stated.
Here's a picture of the current and will post if I remember latter with the newbie on the block. Doing some other "trick-outs" on the Uni-saw that when completed won't look like the typical top of a Uni-saw you walk into so many shops and see.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Edited 2/18/2007 4:12 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 2/18/2007 4:13 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 2/18/2007 4:14 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
OK, I didn't know it was an aux fence that would be clamped onto the other one. That makes sense and is actually similar to what I use.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I have seen Euro shorties in pics that are self supporting (Sgain Dubb has one if my memory serves me correctly). I have never seen one up close so I cannot tell you how it attaches or what supports it?
I started using a short fence and crown on my old saw as per a conversation with Slainte about 3-4 years ago as my junk saw has a riving knife. The new Uni-saw I purchased reco has just the splitter. Since I rip exclusively and use my SCMS to cross-cut and do any angles... the Uni-saw should be fine for ripping. I'm going keep the junk saw to do small panels as it has a small slider.
But I won't rip without a "short fence" and "crown guard" anymore period. That Bieseymer is a very nice piece of work as far as a long fence goes, but regardless.. it's going to be wearing a hat in a few days. Weaving the hat and crown guard at the moment, so back to the shop.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Hey Sarge,
I appreciate your comments as well as everyone else's concerning the Table Saw and fence. I originally asked the question about the 12" Grizzly saw but it looks like no one has tried one out. I like the idea of updating the fence to the Euro Style or similar no matter what tablesaw I decide to purchase.
I may do as the woodguru mentions and just go with the PM2000 since I like the idea of having a saw with a riving knife. I definitely want a good stout machine that will last me a lifetime and the PM would be a good choice. However since I do have some time before I decide on my purchase, I have some inside information saying that Grizzly is coming out with a new 10" Extreme Cabinet saw version just like the 12" that I hear will make it a stiff competitor against the PM2000.
Since I have invested in allot of expensive 10" blades I may stick with a 10" saw anyway. Puchasing all new 12" blades would add to the cost of the saw.
By the way woodguru if your reading this, you mention "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short" why did you stop at the fourth time, maybe the fifth time it would have been just right.
Have a good day.
Not a bad idea to wait... I have not heard that Griz is doing that but Steel City is definitely doing it on their 10" industrial version and that came from Scott Box.. co-owner of Steel City as I stared him in the eyes as he spoke. ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Go with the PM2000 I did.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled