Replies

1. 
   Peter36 | Dec 13, 2004 07:04am | #1

   You can cut your mortise and your tenons on machines like this. You would just be routing in a slot for your mortise, and you would rout on the end grain of your tenon.

2. 
   art | Dec 13, 2004 07:33am | #2

   I have one and use it to cut mortises in mating pieces which are then joined with a floating tenon. A fast way to get a strong joint. I'd never go back to doing it any other way.  Art 

1. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 13, 2004 03:02pm | #4

   Art-

   Do you use a router bit in the slot mortiser to remove stock?  I've considered this machine recently, Grizzly's costs as much as a router.  At that price, you can throw it away if it doesn't work well, and not loose too much sleep.  Thanks.

   JC

1. 
   RickL | Dec 13, 2004 03:51pm | #5

   The idea is to make mortises in your rails and stiles and insert a loose tenon. I recommend you use spiral 2 flute high speed endmills especially at the rpm that the Grizzly runs at. Everyone I know uses this type of tooling after trying all the options out there. Trying to machine the tenon with this machine is counter productive and a waste of time. Would you believe the slot mortiser goes back to the early 60's or so in Europe and is barely known here?

2. 
   art | Dec 13, 2004 05:18pm | #6

   End mills seem to work the best. I currently use 4 flute ones because that is what I had but I'm told that 2 flute ones work better. I've also used a spiral upcut router bit. My reasoning was the same as yours and I've been impressed with the machine. It's a substantial machine, fit and finish were fine, and assembly was pretty straightforward with no problems. Also, it's considerably more versitle than a benchtop mortiser.

   Art

1. 
   MatthewSchenker | Dec 13, 2004 05:34pm | #7

   Art,
   I've been interested in this machine for a while as well. I like the method of work that is represented by a machine like this.Besides doing mortises, what are the other benefits of a horizontal boring machine? Also, for a woodworker, is the Grizzly G0540 good enough? What do you get if you move up in price to a higher-end model like Grizzly's G4185, which is around $1,200.Thanks,
   Matthew

   Edited 12/13/2004 9:35 am ET by Matthew Schenker

1. 
   RickL | Dec 13, 2004 05:59pm | #8

   Matt,

   The G4184 is only a boring machine although it's a two spindle unit. You would loose all the benefits of the slot mortiser and boring machine features of the G-0540. Most folks don't seem to realize the G-0540 was a lucky accident on Grizzly's part. Itwas designed as a low end affordable boring machine and the concept of the slot mortiser wasn't  even on their mind. Read the catalog info...no mention of slot mortising. It's good for whatever creative idea you can come up with to utilize the machine. Be creative and think out of the box. At that price it's a no brainer to try it.

2. 
   MatthewSchenker | Dec 13, 2004 06:30pm | #10

   I really like the idea of a machine like this. I can already imagine how I could use it, and I see what you mean about various creative ways to work wood with it.I probably will try it, and then I'll report back here on what I learn!Thanks,
   Matt

3. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 13, 2004 08:13pm | #12

   rick3ddd or Art-

   I'm asking you guys these questions because the Grizzly website gives very little information about this machine.  Can the table be tilted to mortise chair rails, etc... where the two parts being joined are not square to each other, but meet at an angle.  On some of the chairs I build, slats between the back seat rail and the crest rail are not linear to each other.  Can the table be tilted up to accomodate this, or would I need to build a jig.

   Thanks,

   JC

4. 
   RickL | Dec 13, 2004 09:09pm | #14

   You make your own tilting table. If it tilted it would say so. For that price you can afford to build your own tilting table and add air clamps. For $330 delivered you can't buy a router.

   Edited 12/13/2004 7:12 pm ET by rick3ddd

5. 
   art | Dec 13, 2004 09:50pm | #16

   JC, The table moves in three directions, but no tilting.  I would think a small jig to hold your workpiece at the appriopate angle would be easy to make. Art

2. 
   bones | Dec 13, 2004 06:09pm | #9

   Where do you get your End-mills? I'm also curious why a two flute would be preferable to a 4 flute version?

1. 
   RickL | Dec 13, 2004 06:32pm | #11

    Think of it like trying to rip with a cross cut blade. Less teeth cuts better and more efficiently. Endmill are relatively inexpensive and can be gotten from Mcmaster, Enco, MSC, Wholesale Tool and hundreds of industral suppliers. I can get them sharpened for about $5 for a 3/8" endmill.

    Spiral high speed steel 2 flute endmills  for cutting aluminum work best. 4 flute tend to cut a lot slower with more resistance like ripping with a cross cut blade.

2. 
   Jellyrug | Dec 14, 2004 12:57am | #19

   Art,

   Can you give us an idea how long it takes to cut a mortise, this way.

   Say, 1/2" wide, by 2 1/2" long by 1" deep, including set up time.

1. 
   art | Dec 14, 2004 02:54am | #21

   Assuming the end mill is in the chuck and the table is cranked to the right height, one minute or less. 

2. 
   AlanTurner | Dec 14, 2004 04:15pm | #24

   I have the Grigio slot mortiser, a dedicated machine, and use the Bentz Tool endmills 408-293-4211 . My long 1/2" is No. 8008, solid carbide, 2 flute. Compared to router bits, they are inexpensive. For that mortise, about 2 min. set up time (to set the horiz travel, and the depth, and then aobut 30 sec. or so to cut it in 1/4" passes. 4000 rpm, which is fine. Pretty quiet, and the dust is not major, as with a router. Very quick and accurate. I use homemade jigs for angled slotting. I do not use air clamps as I do not do proudction work. Great tool. Mine is a 2 jaw chuck, for the purpose, and goes from about 1/8" to a little over 5/8", I think. There was a question on here sometime ago about whether a drill chuck was OK for the horiz pressure, a matter upon which I have no information.
   Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

3. 
   RickL | Dec 13, 2004 01:56pm | #3

   It's been discussed before. At that price it's worth getting to find out. I suspect it's an accident of sort on Grizzly's part as it was designed to be a horizontal boring machine but the 6" side to side travel makes it a candidate for slot mortising without a doubt. I talked to Grizzly about it as it was in the catalog a few months before actually being available. I have talked to a few folks who bought it and the consensus is what Art is verifying. Go for it. I've been an advocate of the slot mortiser and loose tenons for 20 years and it's about time there was something affordable available. Now if only FWW would get off their butt and do a review on it.

4. 
   gb93433 | Dec 13, 2004 08:19pm | #13

   I use a machine similar to that that I made. The machine I made has a three jaw Jacobs chuck. That way I can use any size bit I want. To cut slots, I use 4 flute milling cutters from places like MSC or ENCO.

1. 
   RickL | Dec 13, 2004 09:12pm | #15

   gb93433, don't know if you are reading all the posts but try a 2 flute HSS spiral. You will find it cuts much nicer.

1. 
   gb93433 | Dec 13, 2004 11:23pm | #17

   3450 is awful slow for a 2 flute bit in woodworking though. I have found there is a tendency for a two flute bit to grab the material if it does not spin fast enough or the material is not supported well enough. For example a router bit spins about 18,000+ RPM. I think the most critical thing is in how large the diameter of the shank is and how smooth the machine. My machine has a Poly V Drive making it extremely smooth. However I use the machine freehand. It is especially nice when making wedged tenon joinery. The material is held by me. My machine is used for making mortises 1/8" diameter up to 1/2" diameter. I make entry doors using a double row of 3/8" X 4" mortises with no mortise larger than 2.5" across. Any door will have at least 40" of glue area per side on even the smallest entry doors. At a chip load of .002 per flute and 3450 RPM you could move the material at 27.6 Inches per minute. Using a two flute bit would be half of that. The bits I use are 4 flute helical cutters used for cutting steel and aluminum. You can get them in quite a number of lengths ranging from about 1" to 3" flutes.

   Edited 12/13/2004 3:27 pm ET by gb93433

1. 
   RickL | Dec 14, 2004 12:31am | #18

   I use two flute HSS endmills rated to machine aluminum and run them at 3450 to 5000 rpm. I found the four flutes tended to bog down versus the  2 flute. I too use then free hand meaning I manually control the feed in and side to side. I do clamp it down  with a mechanical or air clamp depending on what machine I'm working with.

   You say the material is held by you. Just by your arm and hand? No clamp?  Sounds like a lot of room for error if I understand it correctly. I've used up to a 3/4" endmill for certain applications and definitely clamp things

    I found that endmills cut better overall than the commercial slot mortise bits.

1. 
   gb93433 | Dec 14, 2004 01:39am | #20

   I can see where you would have more clearance with 2 flutes. That is the same reason why often they use one flute router bits in production. It will actually remove the material quicker with one flute. I do hold the material. But I make light cuts. That is the reason why I use 4 flutes. It tends to have less of a chance of grabbing the material. I never make tenons on anything larger tna 1/2" because I was trained that it is better to keep the tenons smaller and more of them due to expansion and contraction. I have been making exterior and interior doors this way for about 20 years now and have never had a single failure in the joints. The last time I timed myself was when I made 64 mortises 1/4" wide, ½" long and 1" deep. It took me two hours.

5. 
   jhausch | Dec 14, 2004 03:55am | #22

   Something not said yet about this tool (but mentioned in another post a while back)

   It was probably designed for horizontal boring only; meaning the bearings may not be up to big side-loads.

   For home use and with slow feeds I think you'd be OK, but keep that in mind.  If Grizz gets a bunch back with damaged bearings, they may start refusing the repair. 

   Just a little FYI - nothing to back this up, just speculation.

1. 
   RickL | Dec 14, 2004 11:25am | #23

   Really nothing to worry about. I've spent many years in tool repair and 8 years as a tech for a tool dealer. Routers use standard bearing and they are subjected to high rpms and lateral stresses. Typically shapers, moulders, pin routers and certain larger high stress machines use heavier rated bearings but I forsee no problems with the Grizzly unit. Even if one had to replace the bearings every six months you would still be ahead of the game in cost versus the alternatives available for slot mortisers. Typically one plunges in slightly (maybe 1/4" or so) while going back and forth to clean out the slot so the lateral stresses are really minimal for the most part. Even if you put another motor on the unit at your own cost you would still be ahead of the game.