I’ve been getting lots of advice for my search for a table saw to feed my furniture making habit: Jet, Delta and Powermatic 10-inch contractor saws all seem to have supporters. I’m considering one of them withcast iron wings and Biesemeyer style fence for up to $850.then I run across the Grizzly1023s for the same price. So how can Grizzly get away with selling what looks to be a cabinet saw for the same price. Popular Woodworking seemed to like the saw, as do one or two of you. Where’s the catch? Why should I get a contractor saw when I can get a cabinet saw for the same price? Are Grizzly products inferior in some way? Is this the proverbial “cheap cabinet saw” that is inferior to a top of the line contractor saw?
And while I’m at it. Are Biesemeyer style fences really all that more useful, and worth an extra $200 or so that they seem to command when packaged with a saw?
gaf
Replies
Gaf,
Rules for life:
There is no free lunch.
Nothing is ever as easy as it seems.
Every job takes 2 times as long as one's best estimate.
Opinions about table saws are as personal and as emotional as it gets.
The Grizzly cabinet saw at the same price as the Delta/Jet/Powermatic contractors saw is not a mirage. Is the Grizzly the equivalent of a Powermatic? No. Is it a good saw? It is a very, very good saw.
Does Grizzly cut corners to deliver their price? Yes. Will you be happy with the Grizzly saw? Like many, many others, very likely, very happy.
I have absolutely no association with Grizzly,
Rich
Edited 7/28/2002 4:03:19 PM ET by Rich Rose
gaf, Grizzly is generally thought to be a "less well tuned and manufactured" machine. However, as with all things it depend on your needs. It may be perfectly fine for what you do. I do not own a Grizzly so all this is garnered from some of my recent experiences looking into bandsaws. I am currently biased towards JET.
I really wanted to comments on cast iron wings. I really like my JET contractor saw. However, it is about 7 years old now and the wings are sheet metal. I am very unhappy with them and will look for cast iron replacements soon (I hope). So in the end if you decide not to go with a machine with cast iron wings keep in mind a couple of things. First sheet metal wings are much lighter and cheaper obviously than cast wings. This makes your machine slightly more vibration prone. The sheet metal wings are often painted as mine are. The paint is now rubbing off on some of my wood during heavy machining. This can and usually is sanded off in final assembly but sometimes it is a pain. I much prefer cast iron wings.
I like my JET fence. The extra money for the Biesemeyer just doesn't seem worth it for a hobby. For what it's worth. -MikeM
I keep hearing good things from satisfied Jet users. Jet also manages to position itself just below Delta in the price wars, for that matter. You think the basic Jet fence gets the job done for weekend woodworkers? I'm still trying to understand what the more expensive fences do for you? Is it a question of speeding up the process, something of greater value to pros than hobbyists? Or is the fence more precise, more rugged, more inclined to be/stay parallel to blade or all of the above? I like to think that the stuff I make, albeit not too elaborate (yet) is still as good (or nearly) as anything you can buy from a pro. I just do it a lot more slowly, with more trial and error and anxiety, probably.
gaf
My JET fence is straight and it came that way from the factory. I check it about once a month or so because it seems like my miter gauge is ALWAYS out of square no matter what I do. I don't know what else to say but that I like it, it works well, even with a bunch of saw dust in the track. I have a buddy who has a 10 year old Delta contractor's saw and he wanted to switch to my fence. He never did it but he has fence envy... It works for me...
Add to your list gaf, does having a local dealer available important? Also, what about the Jet 1 3/4 cabinet saw, is that a gimmic? thanks
If you're talking about the Jet JWCS-10A, although it looks like a cabinet saw, it is actually a "hybrid" .
I was reading up on this in Amer.WWer the other day. The Jet and General hybrid saws are very similar. They're designed for reduced vibration by having the motor hung directly under the arbor, with shorter drive belt, and larger (thicker) connecting rods between the trunnions. However, because the trunnions bolt to the top (rather than to the cabinet base), blade alignment is similar to that on a contractor's saw. Vibration is evidently less than a contractor's saw, but more than a cabinet saw, which has the parts hanging off the base, instead of hanging off the saw table.
One nice thing about the JWCS-10A though is that it has the Exacta fence and cast iron wings. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
So what do you think..for a weekend warrior. I think it has a smaller footprint with at least some of the advantages of a cabinet saw..at just a slight bit more than a contractor saw. Would you choose the Grizzly with the power and not as good fit and finish...or the Jet 1 3/4 cabinet (kinda) with less power, better fit and finish....and possibiliy beter local service? Thanks
Hi BG, since I live only about 3 hours away from the Bellingham Grizzly showroom, it makes it pretty easy to go for the Grizzly. But if my choice was between the Jet hybrid from a local dealer, and the Grizzly cab saw and I was far away from them, I'd probably go for the Jet (given the weekend warrior scenario).
However, if I'm doing cabinetry, heavy ripping, lots and lots of sawing (see Mike's post above), and my budget was $1000 or less, I'd go for the Grizzly.
Another factor that makes it hard to decide is customer service -- both Jet and Grizzly have excellent customer service!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks Forest_girl that is helpful. I can drive 25 mins. to New Hampshire and buy a Jet with no tax...or drive about 7 hours to PA. and Grizzly showroom. I think Grizzly has a tent sale in Oct. over in PA and I hear they line up early for that. I'm also about 6 hours from Montreal, don't know if that would be useful to consider and the General TS (dollar value?). I know I can't go wrong with any of the top machines, but thinking about this is kinda like designing the chest of drawers with sliding dovetails in the dust panels..its fun and a minor detail can add so much to the outcome. Thanks
Tent sale? Tell me more - scratch and dent or inventory clearance?
Both..I believe the tent sale is in Sept. this year....perhpas some on here have gone tothe sale in the past? You can do a goggle search on Grizzly and see it on their home page.
A friend of mine and myself went to the scratch and dent sale in Springfield, Mo. 2 weeks ago. got there at 6 a.m. the line was already 150 ft. long for a 8 a.m. opening, by then the line was 1/4 mile long (no kidding), most people were nice but there were a few that cut line, pushed and were generally buttholes. There was a lot of equipment out there, some better than others. I went to buy a 8 in. jointer but could not find one that I personally would plunk down my hard earned money on (on the flip side people were snatching up a lot of the smaller items). Was not a good experience for me but I will be going back to buy (at a little slower pace). As for the the Griz table saw you get the most bang for your buck and their almost bullet proof. The Tiawanese are great machinist and imitators (Unisaw), hate what they do, love their product.
Just want to mention something!!!
I got stuck with a general contracter saw, that has some major alignment problems.
general cabinet saw are expensive but good I hear.
I don't align my saw anymore , it moves so much I just bang on the motor to correct it(with a light but firm leg nudge). It was good today, really, it usually burns wood, which really gets me frustrated.
john g
BURNS WOOD !! ...isn't that normal?...lol...
Here I've been working on hand / eye coordination and your telling me it all in the knee...gees.
thanks, john
The Grizzly 1923s is an excellent saw. I have been a carpenter and cabinetmaker 41 years, I have used many brand table saws both cabinet and contractor saws. The Jet contractor saw is a fine saw but the grizzly is equal to most cabinet saws. Only General and Powermatic are better saws in my opinion. I have bought 5 Grizzly cabinet saws over a 4 year period, only one for myself the rest for the shop I worked for before I retired. The saw has 2 smooth cast iron wings which are beveled in the front the same as the table. Hand wheels are very large and operate smoothly. The fence I have is the classic, a beismier home shop clone, reajusted fence last week after 2 1/2 years of 5 day a week 50 weeks a year. The miter gauge is a heavy cast iron and is quite accurate.The saw weighs about 400 lbs, if you have to move it I reccomend their shop fox mobile base.
I highly reccomend this saw and wish you good luck with whatever saw you purchase
gaf. I bought a grizzly table saw six years ago and it still works like a champ. Haven't had any problems with the alignment or the fence being square. Also, when I needed a part for the saw they overnighted it to me with no extra expense. I too am about to buy a cabinet saw and I am going for the grizzly!
gaf,
View Image
What about replacement parts. have any of you guys ordered any replacement parts from griz for equipment older than say 3- 4 years?? ??? Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Yes.
I thought a bandsaw wheel needed replacement due to excess runout. It was way out of warranty (2-1/2 years). (It was out by .005" which actually was within spec for a low-end saw). The tech offered to send a new one, that he would make sure was balanced and trued, no charge.
He suggested that I first replace the tires and recommended that I not use the ones that Grizzly supplies. New tires fixed the problem. I told the tech not to send the wheel.
They really stand behind their equipment and don't give you BS when trying to help with a problem.
Rich
Ron, I had a Grizzly 1022z tablesaw that I broke the fence locking mechanism on. I was stationed in Hawaii when it happened. I called Grizzly and had the part in less than a week. I'd say that's quality service!
Good luck!
Steve
I went through this decision process last year, and bought a Grizzly 1023s cabinet saw. I'm an amateur, and started looking at Contractor grade saws beacue of price limitation.
I couldn't be happier with my Grizzly cabinet saw, especially considering it was that, or a contractor saw. beismeyer knockoff fence has stayed dead-to-nuts true. cast wings were very flat. trunion very sturdy, true, and easy to operate.
I drove 3hrs to the PA showroom to kick the wheels on this thing before I plunked down my cash. Once I saw it and played with it in the showroom I had no question it was the better value.
I've heard that much of their cost savings comes from poorer quality motors and mag-switches (compared to $1,500 cabinet saws). This may be true, but I think only comes into play if you are a production shop putting mucho hours on the saw every day.
I've had great experience with their customer service as others have said above. No need for it with the table saw; but for other equipment they came through for me, even after the waranttee expired.
Just buy the G1023SL or I send Gentle Ben to visit you. But I won't feed him for about a week beforehand. It's a great saw. Call & ask Grizzly for someone close by that has one who will let you come & see it in actiuon.
Grizzly sells seconds.. Thats it.. bottom line.. nothing else. If you buy it and it works thats great.
I'm sorry to hear that. I sure wish everyone of us that have Grizzly tools & make real nice things out of wood were aware of that before we purchased our equipment Then we would be a smart as you. Maybe you should call Gibson Musical instruments & tell them this great news because they use Grizzly tools too. I know several commercial shops that use these tool & make a real good living from them, also many privat shops. So maybey you are right & everyone else is wrong.
Hiya Bart, I'd rather be 'wrong' like you (and Gibson) than 'right' like whatshisface, LOL! How's your little island these days??
PS: Bart, we've been had. Slim Eball is an impostor!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 8/1/2002 2:35:22 AM ET by forest_girl
Maybe the name is more properly spelled Slime Ball. It's always to good to be true. Someone like this doesn't have enough guts to open their mouth while using their own real name & E-mail address. They are usually running like a chicken while braying from the mouth of an a donky ss.
OK I bite, Bart. Which Grizzly saw are you using. Tell me more about how it performs. How is it better (or as good for less money) than its competition? I keep vascillating between the Grizzly 1022Pro and the comparably equipped Jet/Powermatic/Delta, but there's a $200 difference in price.
gaf
I don't personally have a Grizzly table or Cabinet saw but know several people that do. I have had the privilege to cut several board ft. of oak on a 1023S & then go right over to a Rockwell cabinet saw which is pretty much the same as the Delta Cabinet saw & do the same thing. Both had a Biesemeyer fence. I even had the chance to look at how both saws were constructed. There were some differences but not enough to worry about. The only reason I don't have a Grizzly cabinet saw is because I like & feel safer with a left tilt saw & Grizzly didn't have a left tilt saw. But they do now. So the next saw for me will be the G1023SL cabinet saw. But like everyone else I need money $895.00 + $75 shipping. But I live with in 1 hour’s drive of Bellingham, so will pick up my saw in person.
I think some people have a problem with Grizzly because they can't just walk into the store & Looky-touchy-feely & I can understand that. So call Grizzly & they can tell you of someone that is close by & has the tool your are interested in that would be willing to let you come over to their shop & Looky-touchy-feely to your hearts content. I have spent almost 20 hours or more off & on in the Grizzly show room over the last 8 years. I have watched the evolution from not such good products to good products with good service. I have the G1019 Band saw, the G1029 DC, the G7946 Radial Drill Press, and the G1017 Portable Planer. The rest of my shop is some older Craftsman tools & some newer Craftsman tools. I have a friend that has a shop of almost all Grizzly tools so have had plenty of chance to see the 1023S Cabinet Saw, G1018 8" Jointer, G1073 16" Band Saw, G1014 Belt & Disk sander, G1495 Lathe, G1071 Spindle sander & G1531 edge sander, G1029 DC in action. These are all good tools.
Bart<
While you were in the Grizzly showroom, did you have a chance to look at the contractor saws? Do you think the smaller saw is as good for what it is as the heavier cabinet saw?
gaf
I'll stick my nose back in here while we're waiting for Bart -- I've been to the Grizz showroom 3 times, and done the touchy-feely thing with the saws and other tools. The only contractor's Grizz I would consider buying is the new 1022ZPro, which comes with the Shop Fox Classic fence ($550). Still, it's got those gridded cast iron wings, which I know I'd not like. Provided with another $300, I'd definitely go for the cabinet saw.
The cheap fence that comes with the bottom-of-the-line contractor's saw is exactly that -- cheap.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
here, here, forest girl you speak the straight up truth!
Wellll, I certainly speak the truth about my opinion, FWIW. There's one thing I'm definitely the world's best expert on: my opinion. LOL! There's bound to be someone out there, however, how really luvvvvvs those gridded wings. I look at 'em and think "OUch!"forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Howdy:
Long time, no see! Been off on a personal crusade. Just thought I'd let you know I luuuvvvv those grids. If it rains you can apply propane heat underneath and cook hamburgers on your saw. They channel off the grease nicely.
Seriously, we southeasterners don't get to see much of Grizzly. Does all the cabinet models have cast-iron tables? Sounds like most are satisfied that have it. Lot of new locals ask me about Grizzly because of price and I can't give them a knowledgeable answer. I've been on website but I want opinion from up-close look.
Looks like Slimeball has been giving you and Bart a hard time. Keep your cool, the cream always comes to the top!
Tell Bart I said howdy and best regards to you,
Sarge..
Sarge..
Hi Sarge, that propane idea sounds like a good one. We used to lose power several times each winter, but since they fixed the island lines, now it only goes out on a calm, sunny day -- go figure!
All of the Grizzly cabinet saws have solid (not BBQ style) cast iron wings. The model that gets the most attention is the G1023S, which is $795, 3 HP, 220V, and the Shop Fox Classic (Bies clone) fence. They now make a Left tilt model also, for $100 more. Shipping is $75 (unless you get 'em during their sale).
I've seen 'em, like 'em but more important than that are all the people who have written posts about actually using them and luvin' 'em. I'm especially impressed by reviews from people who have used them in production situations and they've held up well.
I'm not sure I'd mess with their contractor's saws, except for the 1022Pro model mentioned above. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
thanks for butting in.
I know what you mean about those wings.Better than steel, but...
If I had thte extra 300, I wonder if I should go for a Jet with exacta fence and cast wings?
gaf
"I wonder if I should go for a Jet with exacta fence and cast wings?" You're speaking here of the Jet contractor's saw? Or the hybrid? Gotta be specific, LOL, we've covered just about every Jet on the market I think!
Inquiring minds want to know:
How much $$ do you have to spend
How far are you from a Jet dealer
How far are you from a Grizzly outlet
Do you have 220V (or willing to put it in)
I think Grizzly's summer sale has another month or so to go. It usually means free shipping, though I've not looked it up this year 'cause I don't need any tools!!!!! Just had to say that, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest Girl:
Sorry about the confusion. I'm muddling my way through this selection process in search of a tablesaw. My current favorite is becoming the Griz 1022Pro contractor saw, assuming they compare as favorably to Jet/Delta contractor saws as Grizzly defenders contend. Price is too hard to resist and you get a 2 horse motor, cast iron (albeit griddle) wings and a Biesemeyer clone fence.
I could talk myself into spending $850 for the Jet or Powermatic contractor saws comparably equipped if someone can convince me Grizzly is clearly a notch below in quality. But so far the naysayers seem to be working off hearsay or gut instinct, the defenders from personal experience. My barn at the moment has only 110v but could be configured for 220 if I wanted to pay an electrician to come in. As a hobbyist who currently works at the pace of one hutch or desk or chest of drawers for myself or friends every few months, with a few pencil boxes or small mantel clocks in between, I think $900 for Grizzly cabinet saw 1023 may be overkill. (And the rest of my family I'm sure would think so.) Besides there are a few other items I could save the money for. Band saw would be nice, since I seem to find myself resawing a lot of stock for those boxes and clocks.
There's a woodworker's warehouse nearby that sells Jets and Deltas, but they aren't too bright and charge sales tax, so I would probably buy through a catalog. The last time I asked WW guys for help with a problem on my Delta portable planer, they were helpless and simply referred me to Delta Customer Service. So I'm not sure what help they would be if I had problems with one of their saws, especially judging from how poorly they assemble their floor models.
Grizzly in Penn. is about 8 hours away. But they have turned me on to a fellow about a hour from here who owns a Pro, and so I may make a road trip for this weekend to see for myself. Stay tuned. That will be the final determinate, as I've been using the standard Delta contractor saw for the past 2 years now and feel pretty confident I will be able to feel the difference, if any, in performance, fit and finish.
I want to personally thank you for all your input on this issue. I gather you're a regular on this site.
I'll get back after I've made the big decision and/or when I start using the new machine.
Thanks from Mass.
gaf
Gaf...here is another rumor....A guy just told me you can get a Grizzly through a store in Springfield, MA. I'm gonna due a little checking out ...thought you might want to dothe same. good Luck
BG
That is interesting. I'd appreciate any info. Springfield is a just a skip down I-91 from my neck of western Mass.
gaf
im curious more on the grizzly motors.
While the fence on a grizzly cabinet saw may not be the cat's meow, the cast iron top look and feel right on.
Im w/in a day to the Missouri Grizzly location and have looked at the cabinet saws and like them minus the fence. But the only thing that worries me is the motor. Anyone else have info on how the motor performs?
The fence doesnt feel right for some reason to me.
Bill, which fence? On the cab saws, there's the Shop Fox classic (has UMHW-type subfence) or the newer Shop Fox (all metal). They're quite different.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Where in Missouri?
Just happen to have the catalog here: corner of S. Kansas Expressway and Battlefield Street. Open Mon-Sat, 8:30-6.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks, but is that in St. Louis, Kansas City, etc.?
Michael
Springfield MO, SW part of the State.
Oh, details! LOL, sorry!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
No problem. I just don't want to wander around the state. :o)
Michael
I was looking at the 15 in. Griz bandsaw. I called Griz to talk & found out about the referral service. I got the address--about a mile a way--send a post card--never heard back. Complained to Griz.
Went ahead & bought the bandsaw & found the guts to be weak. Specifically, the axle is not heavy enough & flexes under tensioning the blade. Result: every time I tension the blade I must also reallign the wheels.
This wouldn't matter on a product where there are no working parts--e.g., a 100 lb. anvil. But what about when there are working parts? Well, NASA can send a man in space with the lowest bidders. But if the lowest bid approach is the one you like, you should expect a Challenger disaster every so often. These occasions require lots of tweaking, tuning, and honing to get the show on track. Or do you want something that works and reliably so?
This is why I tell my dad not to buy the Griz cab. He's salivating worse than Pavlov's dog over it, but I tell him he'll be disappointed. This is because he is retired and uses his shop every week. So my thinking is he'd benefit from a machine that really works. In addition, I think the service lacks, and Powermatic would probably give better customer support. His argument is the PM costs twice the money. Since my dad is a cheapskate and money is supreme, then I think he could benefit from the Griz, especially since he knows how to work over and overhaul a machine.
I also have other Griz stuff--a planer. A large belt sander. A drill press. These other tools work a little better than the bandsaw. However, they are considerably more SIMPLE. I also bought the upper end Shop Fox fence for $275, and I was so disappointed with it that I sent it back, while they wanted to charge me a restocking fee--10%--some thanks for my good business.
Am I disappointed after all the money I've spent? Primarily just on the Griz products, esp. the bandsaw. The best tools I have are a Delta planer; Delta dust collector; and the Incra fence. People say the Incra fence isn't so hot. That's BS. Want my Incra fence? Sorry, never gonna be for sale. All-around you get what you pay for. Where PRIMARY machines are concerned, I think you should shoot for the stars and that you won't get there in a Griz. I don't personally need a 400 lb. doorstop; I need something that works.
Right now I'm looking at 8 in. jointers. Griz is not even in the running. Bridgewood goes through a similar production process, but the delivery process requires their machines to go through inspection and tuning in the U.S. before shipping out of the Pennsyvania plant. This type of quality control I can live with. For maybe $400 more, I think I'll get a tool I can use PLUS with a Baldor motor made in the good ol' USA. Oh, yea, gonna wave a little bit of flag!! Can you hear some pledge of allegiance coming through?
Want a tip? http://www.wilkemachinery.com
Jeff
Thanks for the tip. It's good to hear from someone who has a bunch of the Griz machines.
Michael
gaf, I would also check out the machinery and tool link on this website, and look at the EXFACTOTRY website. There are a lot of good used tools here. I have no problems buying used tools that are in good shape. Most of the tools in my shop are used.
About 2 years ago I was going to buy a new cabinet saw. I was on my way to the Bellingham Grizzly store to give the 1023 a good look over. I just happend to be thumbing through the Anacortes American (the local Newspaper) and found an older Unisaw for sale for $400.00. I bought the saw and will never part with it.
Since then I have been to the Grizzly store and looked over the 1023. I can honestly say that if I hadn't found the unisaw locally and for that price I would be a proud owner of a 1023.
Most of my relatives own Grizzly tools and have never had a problem with them. I recently bought a G1018 jointer after getting to try it out first. I love it.
Steve
Steve:
Thanks for the insight. I contemplated shopping around for a used saw but just don't trust myself to spot a lemon. I remember my dad using an old Craftsman contractor saw years ago for everything when he was building our house when I was a kid. He loaned the saw to someone one time and they dropped it off the back of a pickup. After that he could never get it to work true, although I sure couldn't tell from looking at it. I'm still enough of a novice that I guess I'll shell out the extra money for a new saw and hope that it doesn't have any problems or that I can tell whether it's me or the saw if it has problems when it arrives.
Perhaps sometime farther down the road, I will feel the need and be confident enough to graduate up to a Unisaw, or Grizzly 1023.
Meanwhile, your feedback has bolstered my confidence in choosing a Grizzly product.
thanks
gaf
Hi gaf, wellllll it sure doesn't sound like your local guys are tipping the scales in their favor, LOL! Given what you're saying about the amount of resawing you do, I'd agree that going for the lighter-weight$$ saw and then picking up a band-saw would be a wise move! And you'll love having a band-saw handy -- I don't use mine that much, but when it's the right tool, it's the right tool.
Let us know what you think after you go pay a visit to the Pro near you. Can't wait to hear!
As for the motor, I'd not worry too much. You're not likely to be stressing it, and it'll do what you want I'm sure. Grizzly will stand behind it also.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Gaf,
I own the table saw you describe and, short of a 5 hp Powermatic, it is a great saw!
I highly recommend using 220 vs 110...and use a good blade....Forrest is my pick! The cast iron and Exact fence are dead on!
I've added a rockler router table to the side of one cast-iron extension....my shop's too small for a stand alone....
Good luck!
lp
You could go for the 1022ZPro like Forest Girl said.
I now have the 1997 model of the Craftsman contractor saw. I have never had a problem with it. But most people don't know that when you put the Sears fence together you need to use loctite & then it will stay accurate.
Forest Girl I'll say this tongue in cheek I have used saws with cast webbed wings for 35 years & my Dad has use them for 45 years. Remeber I'm teasing you. You sometimes need to be smarter then the equipment your using. Niether one of us has ever pinched our fingers. I have heard people say that webbed wings make it possible to clamp jigs & feather board easier. But I agree solid cast wings are great.
Gaf if you can wait & save the rest of the money to purchase the G1023SL you'll never need to upgrade then you'll never need to wonder what a real good saw is like. Of course you'll need 220v electricity to power it I think the 1022Z pro is either 110v or 220v.
What ever you get please let us know . Inquiring minds like to know. Be safe & have fun making sawdust.
Bart:
Thanks for your outlined recommendation on Grizzly! I needed some input on them as per post I sent to FG last nite. Got great input from you on SF mortiser. Winner for the money. Seems you can,t trust everyone these days!
Also seems everyone happy with saw but none. I see he also has not returned reply. Must have been some kind of flu going around the last few days. I been doing a little home-work and objects in your mirror may be much larger than they seem.
By the way, I wish I knew how to make big letters. Hey, it took me an hour to figure out how to enter my first message a couple weeks ago. Got a feeling if you can do that you won't have any problem coming up with a square fence SF.
Thanks for your honest input!
Sarge..
My experiance with Grizzly has been nothing but positive. started out with a 8 inch jointer, fell in love with the 20 inch planer, next comes the 12 inch table saw....
I think it would be much easier to get blades etc for the 10" cabinet saw. Think about it most cabinet shops & other smaller commercial shops have 10" cabinet saws there must be a reason. What are you planning to do with this equipment if you don't mind me asking?
Hi Bart,
I have a lot of black walnut 4"x4"s that I'm gonna turn into spindles. Since they are 4+ by 4+ I'll need to size them down to around 3x3 to get the shape I want. My Delta won't rip 4/4 let alone 1/2 way through these so the power and blade size is very attractive to me. As for blades, I already have a good selection of 12 inch blades for my Dewalt compound mitre saw, so adding a few more shouldn't pose any difficulty.
BANDSAW
218 4x4's, 8 to 10 feet long. I own a jet 14 inch bandsaw w/ riser and there is simply no way I could see doing about 4000 feet of resawing with a band saw. It takes me several minutes to go a foot. that's about 300 hours of sawing.......
I can shove a timber thru a 12 inch saw in about a minute. that's 218 minutes or a little over 3 1/2 hours.
figure I take a break during it, we are still comparing 4 to 300!
Now if I value my time at just 10 bucks an hour, that's almost a $3000 dollar differance.
pays for the saw pretty quickly......
frenchy, why not get yourself a bigger bandsaw, i can shove some pretty thick wood through my laguna extremely fast. that way you can also do something about those gigantic peices of "scrap" you have lying around. if i were you i'd be looking into a 14" saw not a 12". then you can handle your even bigger timbers with the saw. by the way, if you're not going to take any photos of this house, please get someone else to for you. it sounds so impressive it would be a shame not to see it.
I know I sound stupid, but do you mean you can cut wood as fast with a bandsaw as a cabinet saw? I thought the one advantage a cabinet saw had was the ability to shove wood against a fence and cut quickly.
Would you do me a favor and tell me how fast you can cut a 8 foot 4x4 lengthwise? I currantly use a 1/2 inch skip tooth blade, would I be better using a wider blade for ripping work?
Fair enough about the pictures. There is a problem, I live in fly-over-land. (ie, not on either coast) so it seems a little difficult to get anyone to come here and take pictures. I've offered to let anyone with a camera take any and all they want, so far no takers......
actually it's far from finished so it might be better to take them when it is finished, but the west wing is up and this weekend I started on the the roof trusses for the great room. It was a very good day and I finished both #1 and #2 If the planer blades had held up I might of finished #3.
It seems as if they are almost flat compared to the west wing (17/12 vs 27/12) and that's an adjustment.
I'm very proud of the solution I came up with for the impossible task of the top plate. I use Mortice and tenions on just about everything. I needed to put the top plate into the south vertical at the same time I dropped it over the west vertical. The pockets need to be very snug their whole length (since the roof truss lands on them) they are also very long(19 1/2 inches) while the horizontal tenion goes in 3 1/2 inches. In addition there is a reverse draft the top half of of the top plate. All this adds up to trying to make a timber bend while it's assembled (since it's a 6"x12" oak timber it really doesn't want to bend very easily)
What I did what make a floating tenion and once the top plate was in place under the reverse draft and into the south mortice I then slide a floating tenion into place (thunk) and then pined it! Excuse me for bragging, but I felt very clever and all my wife did was look at me with a blank stare, the dog at least looked interested......
In re biesemeyer fence:
The bies fence is built like a tank and when I set the fence using the ruler it is dead on always. Also on a more personal level when I look at the fence it gives me personal satisfaction. Its one of the few things I own where I feel its the best in the world.
I am not trying to sound arrogant but I'm in a little better position than you for judging cabinet size 10" table saws since I've had both over the years. I had a contractor's Delta and then later a Powermatic 66 for over five years. The jump in performance between the Delta's contractor's saw and the big Powermatic--both with Biesemeyer fences--was like night and day. I sold both when I moved out of state so I am now with a Powermatic 10" contractor's saw. I will most likely buy the Delta Left Tilting 10" Unisaw this time around--once and for all. I was not entirely pleased with the Powermatic 66 because of later pulley problems which Powermatic says they have now corrected. Delta is cheaper and now sports a left tilting blade with the Biesemeyer fence. Had the Delta made the left tilting blade years ago, I would've bought it over the Powermatic. So much for this...
I would go with a Jet anyday over a Grizzly if you're looking for a import. Jet has excellent customer service and I think the quality is far superior to anything Grizzly sells. I will, as I said, however buy the Delta Unisaw which I think is a higher quality than the Jet. I would never be without a Biesemeyer fence which you ask about. I am a loyal fan of the Biesemeyer over any of it's clones. I own one on the Powermatic contractor's saw now and I don't like it at all. You ask why the Biesemeyer?--No matter how great a saw you have, if the fence is unreliable for accurate cuts the saw ain't worth s---! Of course, trunnions, weight, etc. are also important to the saw's quality. Hope my opinion helps you make a decision that won't later sting you.
Sorry FG....As you can see from todays discussions, it would appear that Steve is slimball...and who else? Looks like we've been had...Lets hear it Steve...
I have the Grizzly cabinet saw and it comes with a shop Fox fence. This is a different mechanism than the Bisemeyer but it is very positive locking and dead true once adjusted. I have never had the saw bog down, and for any furniture building applications it has been quite adequate. It is solid cast iron and has cast iron extension wings. I personally think it's finish is fine. The adjustment wheels are heavy cast iron and it has a magnetic switch. I would consider putting the extra money into fine quality hand tools such as planes, since machine cutting is only a rough step before final finishing and fitting (planing, paring) in most fine furniture construction. I have no affiliation with Grizzly.
A clarification, lest gaf gets confused about the Shop Fox: the newest Shop Fox fence is as Jayst describes, and simply called the Shop Fox Fence. The Bies clone is the called "Shop Fox Classic."forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
gaf,
I had purchased a grizzly jointer about a year ago. I must say I was pretty impressed with the quality of the product and the finish. I really don't have any complaints about it. I never had to use customer service yet, but I'm sure happy to hear good things about it in these posts.
The main reason Grizzley can offer their cabinet saw at a price comparable to Delta and Jets contractors saws is that they directly import the items. That way they don't have to charge the additional step in markup that a dealer of Delta or Jet would. You pay less but give up some of the direct contact with your supplier.
From what I have read of their service and support it is probably a risk worth taking. I will soon replace the Craftsman contractors saw I bought in 1978 with a Grizzley 1023S. I have never had a problem with the Craftsman other than replacing the arbor after 20 years and expect the same service from the Grizzley.
For the savings between the Griz and Delta/Jet cabinet saws I can buy an 8 inch Griz Jointer. Somehow this makes really good sense to me.
Good choice, the G1023S is an excellent saw. Ive been using mine almost every day for 2 1/2 years.No problems except for a broken plastic stop button when I first got the saw.Grizzly sent me a new one in three days.I have used the Delta unisaws, General , Jet and manyother cabinet saws over 41 years.The General is a better saw than the Grizzly, Powermatic would be my choice if I had unlimted funds.All in all the Grizzly cabibet saw is worth every penny I paid for it.
Last year I purchased the 16" bandsaw, I believe the number is G1073.This is a great bandsaw, very heavy, needed a comealong to set the saw on it's base.
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