I thought I’d share my tool buying experience with my fellow wood workers.
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Sorry, this is a little long winded.
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For the past year I read endless posts, trying to decide on a 14” band saw and 8” jointer. I originally planned on buying an 8” Yorkcraft jointer, but when I read on Knots that Wilke Machinery would no longer be selling Yorkcraft machines I was forced to look elsewhere. Fortunately for me Grizzly lowered the price on their G0586 8” jointer to $595, which was the same price as the Yorkcraft J
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I had a much harder time trying to decide on a 14” band saw. I was leaning towards the Delta 28-206, but was turned off by many negative reviews. I also looked at the 28-475X, but couldn’t really justify the price difference. The October issue of Fine Wood Working helped to solve my dilemma. After reading their review of the G0457 I decided that was the band saw I wanted.
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Pre-Purchase<!—-> <!—->
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The Muncy, PA Grizzly location is about 3.5 hrs from my house, so instead of paying for shipping I decided that a road trip was in order. I e-mailed Grizzly w/ some questions about transporting the equipment. I received very helpful responses that same day. I also called their customer service to check on availability of the tools and to schedule a pick up date. Their representatives were very courteous and helpful. Two thumbs up!
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Purchase <!—-> <!—->
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The store is a tool lovers dream, I highly recommend stopping by if you get the chance.
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Buying the tools was a piece of cake. Went to the cashiers, they pulled up my info, paid for the tools, pulled the truck around to the tool pickup area, loaded the tools, and got back on the road. Only took about 45 min from start to finish…and most of that time was spent securing the tools to the truck. Two Thumbs up!
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Assembly<!—-> <!—->
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Assembling the tools was also very easy. All parts were included and nothing was damaged.
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My buying experience with Grizzly Industrial was great! I would highly recommend their products.
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Trevor<!—-> <!—->
Replies
Congrats on the new jointer. Post a review so we know how it does. I've had nothing but good experiences (all mail order). I have the 1023 ts the 17"hd bs, and the horizontal boring machine. The tablesaw was damaged in shipping and I refused the shipment, called customer service and a new one was on the way the next day. Second one was perfect, been using it for over two years now. I'm looking at the jointer now, just can't decide if I want to spring for the spiral cutter head. Be sure to give a follow up review of the tools (with pics if you can). Enjoy the new toys.
.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Edited 8/28/2007 9:47 am by bones
Same here; I purchased the 1023 table saw with the router table wing about 6 months ago and everything went smoothly. I got the 5hp model and that thing sure does sang purty.
I too have been thinking of buying the 8" jointer with the spiral cutterhead. $1000.....are you kidding....
Good for you... I have to say I see a lot of people who have had great experiences with Grizzley. I however had the worst customer service experience this past spring I have ever had and will not order anything from them in the future. Perhapse I would feel differently if I could drive over there and buy from the store but I experienced a nightmare.
Drew
it is interesting how many people with ALL saw brands have the same issue- shipping companies smash / bend / break saws is such a regular thing I can't blame the manufacturer. It is to the point that SawStop has you sign a special form that you promise to mark the shipping receipt "possible damage - will fully check and notify" type of statment so that they have a leg to stand on when trying to get their $ back when you warranty it. If you don't sign this form they won't honor their warranty.
Wish SS was closer ... it's be a great roadtrip!
Drew1house,
I could have had a terrible experiance myself.. I started out with their 8 inch jointer and when it arrived the crate was all busted as was the machine..
However a phone call solved everything. In the end I choose to have them send me the broken castings etc. and they did over night.. no forms, no pictures, just what do you need and it arrived the first thing the next morning. It quickly went together and since then that machine has helped me build my home.. nearly 50,000 bd.ft has been over it thus far and other than sharpening the blades I have not needed to do anything to it..
Since then I have purchased all the rest of my shop equipment from them and continue to do so owning 8 major pieces thus far..
I get it... they sent the stuff to Colorado and did not figure out what had happened till weeks later... so first it did not show up. I called and they did not reship. Part of the order came... part did not. It took about a month for all the parts to get to me with multiple calls in the interim. Then the shipper left the maple bench top outside of my house in the rain... (that was nice but not totally Grizzleys fault.) Then in the box for one of the items that was shipped to me they shipped essentially 2 left feet and no right feet. They said return the feet. Unfortunatly I had shipped the stuff from me to the powder coating company as the job I was on was way behind (bench legs) due to the shipping mess up. So I got them back from the powder coater and realized that the box had incorrect feet in it... called them and they said they would switch it out till they realized I had powder coated it (I ordered this in February) and this was May... I then said hey you did not deliver the product... They argued that my having it painted meant that I had accepted it as is... It was disasterous. I literally had to threaten them to get it taken care of. In addition to this another part of the order was lost in shipping to the point that in May it got back to them... they then shipped to me. (I had not realized that this did not get delivered). It was in the original box that had gone to Colorado and it was a heavy cast iron peice that had beat the box to death and the bolt package had fallen out and gotten lost... What a mess...Drew
Drew,
Sounds like the shippers let you down not Grizzly. I will say that phone calls have always resovled everything to my complete satisfaction but then I had a total of two issues one I told you about and one where they locked the keys inside. a phone call got me an extra set of keys overnight..
The shippers did let me down... but it is naive to think or say that Grizzley did not. If that is what you recieved from my post it would have to be due to the lack of communication on my part. I literally spent (when I started tracking it) 13 hours on the phone with Grizzley trying to straighten this all out. The only way I did get what I had ordered in February was to threaten to type the story out in detail and pass it out to every attendee at the AWFS show in Vegas... I did go to the show (what an experience) but I can tell I was the anomily for them but it was very very bad and disappointing to say the least. I said what I did in the previous post about the shipper to be fair but they were only a small part of the entire problem.Drew
Yes, but I would take the stance that the shipper is their agent, not mine, as they made the choice of shippers, and not I.
Thus they are responsible for the shippers problems. And, when you are shipping as much stuff as Grizzly, you would want to have well engineered shipping containers and packaging.
Drew,
You make a valid point, except for the trade-off. The trade off we all accept to reduce costs.. price pressure helps keep the cost of shipping low..
I understand why you would be upset.. however I think luck has a factor.. most of those who answer have had good shipping experiance from Grizzly. Once in a while someone is going to screw up in even the best company.
It was you and I understand how you feel about that..
It won't help you to know that of the 8 major and about 30 minor pieces of equipment plus bits and hand tools etc. I've purchased from Grizzly just that one crate was damaged.. the misplaced key was annoying but promptly dealt with..
So at a minimum I've recieved 50 packages from Grizzly with one damaged.. too bad it was the first one.
Yes, but I would take the stance that the shipper is their agent, not mine, as they made the choice of shippers, and not I.
Thus they are responsible for the shippers problems. And, when you are shipping as much stuff as Grizzly, you would want to have well engineered shipping containers and packaging.
Legally, I don't think that's the case. Shipments like this are usually on the basis of FOB the shipping location; so you take title of the freight once it leaves the Grizzly dock. The shipper coordinates the freight hauler as a courtesy to you, but you pay for the shipping, not Grizzly, and any shipping damage is the hauler's responsibility. You have the responsibility to adequately inspect it before telling the hauler that they've completed the task you paid them for.
I've had excellent customer service from Grizzly. They've made things right, even when it's not their fault. And while he doesn't participate in Knots, the CEO participates in a few other online forums, and responds very well to customer problems. 'don't know of any other tool company that does that!
I dunno, if Grzzly shipped me something and I ended up painting it, I don't think I'd expect them to take it back, no questions asked.
Drew,
I had a few shipments from Amazon that were very banged up. Small tools seem to come through well, but not the big ones. I decided to go down to the local Woodcraft store when I wanted a table saw. They had three of the one I wanted, and they were still in boxes. Not a scratch or dent on the boxes. They seem to do good shipping of the stuff they sell. So I thought about it. Do I want to take a chance on the shipper, or pick out a box that is undamaged. At Woodcraft, I didn't have to pay "shipping", so the cost was not much more than I would pay others. I believe Rockler is much the same. Since then, I have taken a part time job at Woodcraft, and it has been great fun. As I see the shipments come in, they are in excellent shape. By the way, I get paid by the hour, so I am not "shilling" for the company. The pay is not enough to make me say anything I don't believe. The next time you are in the market for a piece of big iron, take a look at your local Rockler or Woodcraft, and ask to see the boxes. See if you come to the same conclusion that I have.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Most packages do arrive undamaged.. shipping companies lose when things are damaged so they take pains to reduce damage.. but they don't pay the best wages or have the best working conditions. Stuff happens.
As for Woodcrafters. I hope you treat customers better than my local woodcrafters treated me.. I won't give you the horror stories unless you ask but I spit nails at their name..
That's after spending $1000's of dollars with them.. Virtually everthing they sold has benn absolute junk and disposed of since. The sole exception was the Jet bandsaw I bought.. while it's starter capictor quit a few weeks after purchase I've been able to prop start it nicely so it's holding up now for the past 6 years..
Frenchy.
Bon jour.
Comment allez vous aujourdhui?
Like I said, I am only one part time employee at the local Woodcraft store, and I enjoy helping people. I have been doing it since June, and a lot of folks come back and ask for me by name. That makes me feel good. I treat people very well, even when they don't do the same for me. You said that you bought some stuff at Woodcraft that is was not good quality. During my first few weeks there, I was very free with advice. Then I found that most people already knew what they wanted, and my advice was not it. So I began to listen more. They tell me what they want. If I think they could make a better choice, I quietly tell them about the alternative, but that advice is rarely taken. I often buy stuff at Woodcraft because I get a tremendous discount there, which is one of the reasons I took the job. But I Always take full responsibility for what I buy. I read up on things ahead of time, and I ask others for their advice, but when I make my decision, then it is MY fault if I have picked a loser.Getting advice on Knots is like getting advice in Woodcraft, you can get a lot of it, but which do you choose? How do you know that the person on Knots has ever built anything? How do you know that the Woodcraft rep knows what he is talking about? All you can do is listen, and then ask questions to determine if they are credible in the area of the question. However, I firmly believe that if I take someone's advice, what happens is my responsibility, not theirs. The Woodcraft where I work, has a 90 return policy, and you can return it just because you don't like it.You know, if you are not being treated well by a Woodcraft employee, just contact the store manager, or tell the Woodcraft central office. They won't put up with bad employee behavior. Also, before you buy anything at Woodcraft, ask what the feedback from customers is on that object. All of the ones that I know shoot straight.I hope that helps.
Laissez les bon temps roullez.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
I went in fat dumb and happy and really listened to the advice I got and rewarded the salesperson by buying from him.. I was basically sold junk... I've posted too often what was wrong so I won't repeat it since you weren't the one who sold me and I won't take things out on you.
When I wasn't happy I went back and found out the saleman was no longer there.. I then went to the manager who...... well, do you really need to know the details? Eventually the store closed and all I can do to get any satisfaction is point out this incident to everyone who asks..
I'm glad you're happy working there and it's been nearly long enough that I don't taste bile in my throat much at all anymore when commenting about woodshafters.
I'm sorry, I understand that you mean well, I shouldn't let my experiance blind me to the fact that you've been decent and tried to be helpfull.
Mel:"During my first few weeks there, I was very free with advice. Then I found that most people already knew what they wanted, and my advice was not it. So I began to listen more."You have encapsulated neatly what every successful consultant and salesman knows! Even though you could add a great deal, unsolicited advice, regardless of its quality is almost never heeded.One of the most helpful things I have learned in life is that a good question is more valuable than a great answer. And you only get to good questions by listening, and that was another helpful thing I have learned.When I meet a new prospect for the first time, I try to get them to talk as much as possible. I might interject with very open-ended questions, typically starting with "why". The more they talk the more likely it is that I will win their business; and the reverse is equally true.It won't work with every customer, but some situations and purchases will invite a good question and that might lead to some enlightenment on the customers part and some satisfaction on yours.After all, you didn't get a PhD just to mindless get product off a shelf so the customer can carry it to the checkout. That can, and will be done automatically in time!Yours,Hastings
Hastings,
Your intelligence is exceeded only by your wisdom. Your brief message only let me see a bit of what you have to offer. Please continue, and tell more about how you feel about this important issue. (sorry about that. I was just trying to let you know that I was not only listening to you, but I was also hearing your message.) I often use your technique of asking questions to get someone thinking. When you do "see the light come on", which doesn't always happen, it just feels good. Hastings, I believe that you and I must be related. We have a lot of commonly shared beliefs and values.Enjoy,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
If part of your shipment was late, did you ask for a tracking number? It should have been possible to quickly find out where the missing items were. Anything that was missing or damaged should be refused and a call to the seller made immediately. I would have to agree- if you send something out for paint/powder coating, that says that you accept it. If they had whatever you needed in stock, it could have been shipped overnight. I'm not going to say that everyone in CS is perfect- you both could have been rubbing each other the wrong way and that will always end in a bad experience. If you don't like the person you talk to in CS, you can always ask to talk to someone else. Also, the way you present your case will determine how they will handle it. I'm not saying that you did, but barking at people right out of the gate will never get fast results. "they then shipped to me. (I had not realized that this did not get delivered)."You placed the order and it's your responsibility to make sure everything is accounted for when it arrives. It's their responsibility to make sure it was packed and shipped. The shipping company needs to make sure it gets to the destination without being damaged. It sounds oversimplified but since people are performing these tasks (or not), it's possible for things to be done wrong. Transposed letters and numbers are common. Sad, but true. If a carton shows up with obvious damage, it should never be accepted. If it has slight damage, it should be opened while the driver is still there, whether they want to stay, or not. In customer service, there are three realities. One for each side of the conflict and another for the way it is. We have heard your side. Threatening to hand out flyers at a convention is probably not the best way to make your case. I'm not taking a side here but I have experience in shipping/receiving and customer service. It's easy to get mad when something like this happens but it doesn't help anything. Supervisors are there for a reason and I think at least one could have made this go better.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Think whatever you like... I am finished with this post... I am not new to ecommerce... buy and sell on ebay all the time and have a positive rating of around 300. I have been burned one time. I have purchased hundreds of items from Amazon and Tiger Direct and a bizillion other places... I talked to the supervisor of the first level customer service. They did transpose a zip... but no one could find out what had happened and nothing was trackable from their or my side... it never worked. I not only threatened them with flyers I threatened to talk to my friend who was an assistant AG for the state who helped me along with ith the FBI when I got ripped off for 15 17 inch flat panel computer displays several years back.... I am not an unreasonable person... I am not a stupid person... I am not wet behind the ears with online purchasing... I understand I probably did not have a normal experience with them but for all I know you are a manager or owner over there. Let me put it this way. It was hands down the worst customer service experience I have every had in my life. That is it. Think what you want... defend your experiences with them if it makes you happy... I am sure it was awesome... They never even tried with me... They were mostly apatheticand clueless and a couple of times after an hour of explaining why I was calling yet again... they were down right rude to me. They could have shipped overnight when I finally called asking where the shipment was and they could not find it... They did not... Factually I think they believed I had it.It sucked... have fun with them but even if they had a rep like powermatic.... or sawstop quality saws for $400 I would not shop there or give them a dime more of my money... Even if you think I would be shooting myself in the foot not to do so...Drew
I never said anything about having bought anything from them and if I was a manager or owner, I should have offered to do something to bring you back as a customer. Bad CS is bad CS and if their people have gotten as bad as you say, they may be in trouble.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Drew,
You've learned the hard way how, with Grizzly, it's always the victim's fault here on Knots!Don't you know, if Grizzly ships you an empty box that's your fault! Oh, and even if they did ship you something, and it fell apart, well, that would be your fault as well!You got off relatively easy. Back a couple of years ago, when I reported a similar bad experience with Grizzly customer service, I was attacked from all sides.This is an interesting coincidence. My bad experience was with a Grizzly drill press, which I finally tossed at my local dump. I replaced it with a Ryobi. People laughed, but this afternoon I picked up Fine Woodworking's "2008 Tool-Buying Guide" and in the drill press section, what did I find...a Ryobi drill press is ranked above the same model of Grizzly drill press I threw away. Interesting.
Edited 9/28/2007 5:22 pm ET by MatthewSchenker
Matthew,
and Fords are better than Chevy's and Packard was the best of all..
In that I drive a duramax I would take issue with your opinion of that as well... Ill take my pricey powermatic and my more expensive chevy... you can have your Ford and your Grizzley... Now as far as packard goes... I am 37 and may have ridden in one one time... but I would not have been able to tell the difference as I was probably 3.Drew
In that I drive a duramax I would take issue with your opinion of that as well... Ill take my pricey powermatic and my more expensive chevy... you can have your Ford and your Grizzley... Now as far as packard goes... I am 37 and may have ridden in one one time... but I would not have been able to tell the difference as I was probably 3.
I have a cople of chevy's and several Grizz's! Both fine products!Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
"Fords are better than Chevy's and Packard was the best of all.."Pfffft! Studebaker! Now dat vas a car!
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
fighfigh,
I'll see your Studebaker and raise you a Dusenburg
Now, there's a real dusie!
The cuts I make on my saw are not related to the brand name of the saw.
"I'll see your Studebaker and raise you a Dusenburg"That's not fair, throwing in the big dogs like that. How about a '69 Hurst SC Rambler? Some called Rambler "Kenosha Muscle" but here in Wisconsin, we called them "Kenosha Vibrator". Hispano Suiza? Stutz Bearcat? 1912 Roll-Royce Silver Ghost?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
highfigh,
OK I have but 9 vehicles at home to play with so I'm a bit short of a full deck.. I'll see your Rambler and raise you a Jaguar, (your choice either the V12 roadster or the D type)
I'm sure the V12 can handle your Rambler but it might be a bit of a close thing with the D type. I suspect the power to weight is slightly better than your Rambler. (uh 390?)
What is the name of that old song? Sort of goes.. Toot Toot .. Nash Rambler and a Caddy? I forget but I always liked that song!
That was 'Beep, Beep", by The Playmates. My brother insists that Dicky Do and The Don'ts did it but I heard it not long ago and the DJ announced it as being by The Playmates and it was the version we had. 'Flip Top Box' was on the B side.I'll bet you really wanted to know that, right?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 10/3/2007 8:24 pm by highfigh
Highfigh,
You are correctimundo!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
What else ya wanna know? I got all kinds of useless c-rap floating around in my head.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
'Flip Top Box' Damn! I forgot about that one!Thanks..Yep.. And I loved Green Onions too!
Edited 10/5/2007 2:59 pm by WillGeorge
Roll-Royce I figure about the cost of 5 of my house after my insurance paid most of it...I almost slammed into the side of one near the BIG airport here in Chicago. HIS fault! He admitted it. We chatted awhile and we both went off happy. He had Rented it to pick up the 'to be new bride' at the airport.I hope they are still married and friends!
"Kenosha Vibrator"I thought that was Buba shakin' up a beer can!
I too have had good experiences with Grizzly, which I bought because I'm cheap. I have a contractor style table saw w/220 power and one of their cast iron based lathes. Have had no serious problems with either. When the lathe came in crashed by the shipper, a few phone calls had the enitire motor assembly sent pre-paid.
My saw has a few weak points, like the on/off switch which occasionally starts all by itself, but it cuts square as can be. The lathe I can't evaluate well because I'm not a turner, just use it for small jobs and cabriole legs.
Ernie
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