All,
I’m on the market (maybe after Christmas) for a new bandsaw and jointer. Here is what I’m currently leaning towards:
Bandsaw: Laguna LT-14SE or LT-16 (desire 12″ resaw capability)
Jointer: Powermatic 54A
Here’s what I’m wondering, how do these compare to the following Grizzly models?
Bandsaw: G0513 17″
Jointer: G0500 8″
I’ve never bought a “big” tool from Grizzly and it seems I can get more for less. But is that really the case? Thanks for any input.
Randy
Replies
Stick with your original plan for there is NO comparison.
Throw your Grizzly catalog in the recycle bin.
HMMM let me see if I got this right, your comparing a Powermatic 54A 6" jointer which you can get at Tool Crib for $749.00 to a Grizzly G0500 8" jointer for $795.00..this is a NO BRAINER..Buy the Grizzly..IMHO the G0500 is the Best jointer bargain on the market at this time..
ToolDoc
Proud Member of the Delta & Klein Tradesman Club & Milwaukee HD Club & Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..
A Non ~ Member of the Knots Bandsaw Guru Club..
Like you, I've been buying smaller Grizzly tools and getting a feel for their quality.
I just bought the Grizzly 17" band saw. I haven't set it up yet (I'm traveling this week) but check back and I'll let you know how it does.
Overall the fit and finish has been very good and spec/feature-wise it was an easy choice.
I don't claim firt-hand knowledge, but many experienced woodworkers have told me to stay away from Laguna - more looks and hype than performance. They suggested instead Agazzani bandsaws. Eagle tools currently has the 20" on sale, which has a 13" resaw cap.
Again - just passing in what I've been told by people I trust.
I'm with you on the Agazanni. I've had a 'slightly' larger Aggy (OK, 28in) for two years now and it's probably the best bandsaw I've ever owned. The fit and finish are pretty good (well, it is Italian) but it has one or two neat features of its own, such as a very individual uppe blade guard mechanism. I've tried some of the smaller Aggys and they are on a par - I reckon their 16inch is a better machine than the MiniMax S45, but that may just be subjective. The only negatives about the Aggy here in the UK is that they can't be had with a cast-iron rip fence - both the ACM (aka Laguna) and Centauro (larger SCM) can.
Scrit
Scrit:
Aggi 50 just arrived yesterday with an aluminum fence. I am excited. Glad to hear your comments so that I can justify the expense.
Eric, Oakland
Scrit: do you know anyone who has an Elektra Beckum band saw?
Eric, Oakland.
Hi, a pal of mine who is a joiner has the small E-B BAS316. He reckons it is OK for what it is, although he says it won't tension more than a 12mm blade properly. He mainly uses it for rough-cutting tenons in softwoods, so it doesn't lead such a hard life (that said he does crank-out a prodigious quantity of doors, frames, windows and staircases). The joinery shop on the other side of my place has one of the larger ones, a BAS500 (in dark green). We've never really discussed it, but next time I'm in there I'll ask him about it.
Scrit
logsend
Ditto ToolDoc on the Griz 8". Power-matic you mentioned is 6" I believe. Unfortunately, a lot of Power-matic components come from the same country the Griz does anymore. The Griz has 4 cutter-heads, more horse and you can't compare 8" to 6". The Griz is the best bang for the money on the current market with excellent customer servive and support.
Ditto bakesale on Luguna. I am not familar with the new LT-14 E or whatever the new letters are. What I am sure of is a lot of folks don't care for the lackadaisical, snobbish customer service you get after the fact. At the Atlanta WW show, I dropped by their booth. I had to hurry to the show to see Tom W's from the forums exhibit. Shop dressed and dropped by Luguna. I could have purchased on the spot, but they didn't even bother to help when they saw how I was dressed. Went over to the Mini-Max booth, and these people were fantastic.
Cannot speak for the Griz BS. Don't see too many here in Atlanta. Hopefully you'll get feed from the poster who just bought it.
sarge..jt
Thanks everyone for the replies. I know it is like comparing apples to oranges! So it sounds like if you want a 8" jointer, for under $1500, you better go with Grizzly. And it sounds like Laguna might not be the way to go on the bandsaw - I'll check out mini-max.
Randy
Logsend -
Are yu a professional cabinet maker or furniture maker that runs these tools 5, 6 or even 7 days a week full time? Durability under stress is the only question I've not seen addressed with respect o Grizzley tools; all other issues such as quality of manufacture and accuracy have been tossed about here in the forum several time. Grizzley seems to hold its own on those grounds.
I bought two major tools from my local saw shop, table saw and band saw both Delta, with excellent customer support, etc. My Lathe (Powermatic) I bought from a large equipment dealer in Portland (I'm in Seattle) also with great support. I'm planning on purchasing the Grizzley cyclone dust collection system from Grizzley since 1) they're not that far from me and 2) on my one and only visit to their showroom in Bellingham WA, the people there were all top notch, customer oriented.
I did look over lots of the machinery they had in the showroom and was thoroughly impressed with what I saw. In retrospect, I could have probably saved enough money on the other machines I bought to pay for the dust collection system had I purchased all Grizzley equipment. And no, I'm not anything close to a pro working full time in the shop. But my neighbor *is* and owns the 12" Grizzley table saw. He's sold on its performance.
Like Sarge said, most of this stuff is all made off-shore anyway regardless of brand name. Even my lathe came on a pallet with Chinese characters all over it.
I think the main question about major tool purchases like this is how will they stand up to the kind of use you intend to put them.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis - No I'm not a professional who will be using the machines 5-7 days a week, just a hobbyist that does not want to regret a machine purchase down the road because I sacrificed on price over quality. I also have a neighbor who is a professional machinest/woodworker, he would never own a Grizzly. Guess it's just a matter of taste.
Randy
logsend
What Dennis said makes sense. Industrail uses require different ground rules. These machines are subjected to continual use many hours a day and down-time is money loss. You have to spend bigger bucks to get that kind of quality.
I also have a neighbor that builds out-door funiture for a living and does quite well. Don't mention over-seas equipment to him. He'll ask you to get off the premises. You also want see any Toyoto or Nissan trucks in his drive-way.
I got a giggle when he got a replacement part for his Power-matic 66 TS. As Dennis mentioned, funny writing on the outside of the box. Bill hastily took it from the box and immediatly the box was stuffed in the trash. I didn't dare say a word as the look on his face told the story.
BTW, the replacement part works without flaw, but if you ask him that PM 66 is American made cause that's all he buys. Kind of like taking a sugar pill if your sick. If you imagine it helped, you feel a lot better. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Edit: Someday I may decide to use SpellCheck, but somehow it just doesn't seem American... :>)
Edited 10/27/2003 12:21:22 PM ET by SARGE
What I am sure of is a lot of folks don't care for the lackadaisical, snobbish customer service
So, I'm not the only one who thinks this
Iv'e been to there store when they were still in Laguna Beach, Ca. they reminded me off used cars salesmen with "You can this one over here financed" Listened to one of there "customer service" calls and the attitude of the sales guys was degrading and ripped the customer with the other sales guys after he got off the phone
migraine
I have never owned a Luguna. I have taken a mic and a machinist square to a few and explored about every inch of several. I am picky if I spend that much. It is an excellent an well built machine.
Having been around the forum for about 2 or 3 years (don't remember) I have seen numerous post to substantiate what I stated about customer service. I experienced their salesman on three occasions. Atlanta WW show twice and the International WW show held in Atlanta every two years. Different people all occasions. Same response. Snobbish, arrogant and without enthusiasm. Maybe it is a requirement to work there. I don't have a clue as to why. And you are right, they remind me of car salesman at a "high-end dealership". If you don't look affluent, you are pre-judged a "tire-kicker" and you might not even get a "how are you".
The folks at Mini-Max were told immediately I was just looking at their machine as I was not in the market. They answered every question I had for 30 minutes and demomstrated the machine. They even ask if I cared to go have lunch as they were due. I referred two locals to the MM-16 that purchased from them. The sales staff remembered me(how many people go by Sarge..ha..ha..) from the show.
I'm not saying there is no one at Luguna that is not great to deal with, I'm just saying that I haven't run into them yet. I will go by their booth again this spring as I would like to see their new 14". If I remember my logistics, odds are that helpful person is bound to show up eventually.. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Laguna may not be the answer, but Grizzly sure as hell isn't.
I just can't swing the price of the Mini-Max MM16 or Laguna LT-16HD. I'll be checking out the new Jet models that forestgirl mentioned earlier. I live in MD and the WW show is coming the weekend after Christmas, hopefully I'll get to see all the machines there and make a decision.
Randy
I have the Powermatic(Jet now) And I'm so-so with it. I don't like the way the upper guide bearings are manufactured( a little crooked). A good friend also has one a his guides are also off, but a little better than mine. Resaw capacity is 7"-7 1/4" (I think) Table never stayes square without really torqueing it down and the fence/mitre assembly is a piece.
I'm not sure if this band saw was made overseas, but my 5hp Jet shaper is REALLY nice
Good luck with your search.
Please let us know what you think of the Jet. The semi-local Jet dealer carries them, but they sell so fast, I've not actually been able to lay eyes on one yet.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I of course have not seen one yet either. But both the 16" and 18" only have standard resaw capacity of ~10" and may be a bit under powered from the word of mouth I hear. I downloaded the manual - looks like a fine machine. I'll be sure to let you know if I test drive one! I have a Jet TS and lathe - love them both.
Randy
Yep, I've heard rumors too about the Jets being a little underpowered. I see that the JWBS-20 has a 2HP motor, might help some, no? Won't ask about the price, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've been shopping around for an 8 inch jointer for awhile now. I was hoping to find a good deal on a used one but so far no luck. I guess if $$ wasn't a factor I'ld go for the Powermatic but since I have to balance $$/value I'm really leaning toward the Grizzley 0500. I can't find any bad feedback on it from anybody who has one.
I'm just a serious hobbyist and for the price there doesn't seem to be much else that can compare. I own alot of Delta tools but I think my new jointer will be the Grizzley 0500.
thanks to all for the great info here at Knots.
A few months back when I was jointer shopping,I compared each 8" jointer from Sun Hill,BridgeWood,PowerMatic,Jet & Delta. the Delta DJ20 was a close contender with the Grizzly G0500 but for over value & comparing specs I chose the Grizzly, I felt for the $$ the Grizzly was the better buy..IMHO you can't beat the Grizzly .. and thats coming from a True Blue Delta Club Member..
There is going to be Die Hard powerMatic & Delta owners out there who are going to disagree with me..But facts are facts..just compare quality & performance,they speak for themselfs.. I have the Grizz & IM Quite happy with it bottom line & thats all that matters to me..
Take care & Happy Woodworking.. ToolDocProud Member of the Delta & Klein Tradesman Club & Milwaukee HD Club & Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..
A Non ~ Member of the Knots Bandsaw Guru Club..
ToolDoc has had the G0500 jointer for several months now, and has posted about it -- also provided and outside link to another owner's site. Take a look at this thread, which was Grizzly vs. Delta:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-knots&msg=13978.1
IMO, you can't go wrong with the Grizzly jointer. Have yet to hear from anyone with the 17" bandsaw, however. The bandsaw is a more complicated and persnickety machine. Grizzly wheels are usually well-made and co-planar, and they do well in resaw comparisons, but I'd want to be sure that the guide assembly worked well up and down its range, staying in position relative to the blade. Have you considered the new Jet bandsaws? Their price seems to fall between the Laguna's and the Grizzly. Here's a link:
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/JETWood/ProductPreview/JWBS-PP.html
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've had the Laguna 16SEC for a couple of years and it has worked like a charm. I had some initial problems resawing and had multiple, pleasant and responsive interactions with their tech support. Turned out that I had gotten a bad blade. They replaced it quickly and at their expense. I've had nothing but very good response from the company. The saw works great.
Mike
I'm on the market (maybe after Christmas) for a new bandsaw and jointer
I've got the Grizzley 10" cabinet makers saw (10 years), 6" planer (9 years) and 18" bandsaw (1 year).
Love them all. Wouldn't buy anything else.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
I bought the 8 inch jointer from Grizzly. After 20,000 plus bd.ft. I was so happy that I bought a lot of their other equipment. 12 inch table saw, 20 inch planer, 3 hp shaper, etc. so far everything I've bought has held up very well. Failure wize I had one belt broke that I replaced in less than 15 minutes from a local source..
Far from treating these tools like delicate queens I use them to their full capability and ask them to work quickly and for hours on end.. In fact some days the planner works for 12 hours steady stopping only when I eat lunch..
I'm nearing 30,000 bd.ft of hardwood thru them so far and I haven't seen a single sign of wear or failure..
I won't bore you with the hassles I've had with Delta equipment.
Frenchy,
Thanks for the positive input. Exactly what I needed to help with my decision. I appreciate your input.
hugh
My G0500 just arrived yesterday and I've been using it today. It's absolutely fantastic. I can find nothing wrong with it. Granted, it's not a 12" northfield, but for the $$, I doubt powermatic will give you a better deal.
-Dave
I have bought a 6" jointer and a 3HP TS from Grizzly. they both are GREAT! Never had any problems. I am a hobbist that spends about 20hrs/week in the shop. For the money, you can not go wrong with Grizzly.
Many people have different opinions. Some are right ...some are wrong. Most all machines are coming from abroad (China/Taiwan...) Often the same Chineese compnay is mfg machines for different USA comapnies. My point--- do not be surprised that The same Chinese/Taiwneese are making WW machines for JET, Delta and Grizzly.
Good luck,
Mark
Good point, a few years back I was determined to purchase a Delta 6 # jointer, walked into the store WWW and they convinced me that a Jet jointer was a "better" machine... well sawdust in your eye to that notion!!!!!!!.
That was my first and last time listening to a salesman and NOT a woodworker etc. The Jet is an OK machine but I have a Delta contactors saw, chop saw, and drill press and they are solid, true, and reliable machines.
If I upgraded to a Powermatic cabinet saw, which is what I want, how in the dickens will I really know who is making that machine ??????
Edited 10/30/2003 12:13:38 PM ET by spitfire
Edited 10/30/2003 12:16:41 PM ET by spitfire
I think there is little re-assurance that you will knowwho is ACTUALLY mfg. the machine. But why in the world would you aspire to own the Powermatic? There are plenty of other good machines that cost SIGNIFICANTLY less. For the price of a Powermatic TS, you could buy a Grizzly TS and a Bandsaw.
I have nothing to gain by supporting Grizzly except having more money in my back pocket at the end of the day.
Good luck...let me know how it works out for you.
Mark
My Delta stuff was a nightmare.. I remember the equipment in woodshop that was American made and survived for decades with the abuse tenage boys can provide.
The new stuff isn't like that anymore.. Some is made in The US but the castings come from China. Some is made in Tiawan. Whatever, dealing with the service dept. of Delta showed me why they have lost so much ground..
I bought Grizzley because I figured that it couldn't be much worse.. When it was much better I was sold..
There may be some real high end equipment out there that is better but nothing for the money..
Everything, including the castings, for the Unisaw are still made in the US. Their 15" stationary planer is also US made. I got the info directly from Delta.
When I was in the market for a cabinet saw I was intent on buying a Grizzly, but when I saw the prices that WWS was offering for the unisaw, it was only $100 more than the cost of the G1023SL once it got to my door.
I'd rather buy a quality product for a little more $ and keep somebody employed in the US than support somebody's job in China or Taiwan. To me some things are more important than saving a few bucks.
An interesting development in the China bashing wars..
I live in Minnesota, home of the Iron range. recently American companies closed down the last mill in Minnesota that produces the stuff used in the making of steel (taconite) It's been closed all spring and summer and they were about to sell off the equipment and abandon the pit..
The Chineese are buying it and we will export our taconite to China starting in December.
Putting hundreds of workers back to work at the only real decent paying jobs left in Northern Minnesota.
Marko:
I'm sure you're right about that for most of the Us brands. But the factory site isn't the end of the story. We can read about the specs. and the features. And factories can slow down or speed up the production rates with the expected results in quality and cost . I imagine that most fo the brands have reps. over there providng some level of guidance. So the real question is does the Powermatic lable imply that you're going to consistently get the better made machine from that factory. From all the comments I hear, it seems that Grizzly is hit or miss, some machines great some not.
Anyway . . .
I've got a Grizzly 6" jointer and a 16" bandsaw. Bought both of them at one of the "tent" sales they have every year or two. This is where they sell all their returned equipment for reduced prices.
My jointer had been returned because one of the dovetailed ways on the outfeed table had broken and the setscrew wouldn't hold the table anymore. This happened after about a year's use. A little welding, grinding, and leveling and I had a nice 6" jointer at a great price. The bandsaw was damaged in shipping (the upper casing had a ding).
Both tools work great. The jointer joints perfectly, is well built and easy to use. I've resawn birdseye maple with the bandsaw without trouble, and the upper guide works fine. I've also got Jet, and Delta/Rockwell equipment in my shop. The fit and finish of the Jet is superior to anything you'll see from Grizzly.
The Grizzly salesmen were knowledgable, friendly, and helpful. Haven't had any trouble with customer service.
The Grizzly equipment isn't the prettiest in the world but you'll be able to get a lot more capability/capacity for the price.
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