They are awful cheap @ Woodcraft right now.
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FWW had a review a few months back and I thought that they weren't too impressed by them. I have started to get into planes and have almost no income but do have 2 children. By going to garage sales, internet and antique places I have found a nice one or two tha beat the Groz.
Tom
They are just awful.
Took a class where one student had a Groz and it was impossible to get it working right. The plane was thrown away and a Clifton was purchased in its place
I have a 60 1/2 smoother that I have not yet worked into shape. The mouth has a hump at the opening which is just under the .003 they show as being how flat. .003 is NOT even close to being acceptable flatness on a plane. You will have massive issues with jerking, jumping, tearing out large chunks.
Someday I will draw file the mouth and then lap it truly flat. Other than that I would rate the plane as on par with the current stanley modern version. Nice and heavy, blade seems of adequate thickness, but I have not used it yet.
Alan
While it's true you get what you pay for, I actually have one, and it's great. For what I wanted it for. I knew it wouldn't be as good as a new Bailey, LV or LN, or my old Bedrocks.
I spent $45CDN for the #5. I spent about an hour on the sole. I spent about $40CDN for an A2 tool steel blade. I spent about an hour sharpening and honing. I spent another hour filing, stoning and tuning the frog and mating parts.
Total cost: about $90CDN and about 3 hours. Result, a treally good #5 for jobsite or "unconventional" use.
Bear in mind, I'm fairly experienced at plane tune-up, so the above time, was no big deal to me. Your results may vary...
The older I get, the better I was....
Pure C-R-A-P !
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
So does this mean that the iron is difficult to hone to a sharp edge? Will it foul the sharpening system used? and the flattening devices for the sole?
To me, it looks like a low-entry plane that could be tuned up with some effort to provide a decent tool for novices and people that are unable to afford dropping $150+ on a general purpose hand plane.
I only own one 'pricey' plane, and have turned planes that I have purchased new for under $30(close outs, specials, discontinued stock, surplus, etc.) to reliable tools with about an hour into each plane. Someday I will upgrade the irons, but for now they work fine for me.
Hi Craig,
Three students gave them a try last semester. All required an inordinate amount of work to produce a tool capable of only mediocre results. Soles needed lots of flattening. Sloppy throats. Relatively rough castings, especially where the frog meets the body. Imprecise blade adjustment mechanisms. Blade & chip breaker both required lots of tuning. They would have been better served investing their time, money, and elbow grease in an old Stanley or comparable.
The Groz planes I've seen (block, #4, #5) remind me of the cheap new trumpets being imported from India: nice looking knock-offs being made by a low-cost producer who doesn't understand the functional requirements of the instruments they're making. My brother (plays jazz trumpet, trombone, etc.) recently got a trumpet from India to see what they're like: suitable only for conversion into a table lamp.
Don't give up, though. Lot's of imported products have started off a little rough and shaky in the American market and improved steadily over time.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Soles needed lots of flattening.I have a surface grinder if I need it...I did not have to crank it up.. I hate spendin' for the motor to run..I really found the plane to work nice without alot of 'fixing'Well, not out of the Box... And CHEEP!Edit:: Has a adjustable throught that I 'fixed' a bit to make it close up a 'BIT' more..Works like I made it! Well, somebody that knew what they doingHas a adjustable through?? Ya knows.. Like in the neck?Edited 9/11/2005 11:31 am ET by WillGeorge
Edited 9/11/2005 11:32 am ET by WillGeorge
Actually, these are coming from India. I picked one up from Woodcraft for under $15 on sale and a coupon that I had. It seems to work well, but when I get a chance I'll put a couple of hours into tuning it up.
I've heard rumors that these are made from the Record molds & design. Can't comment on that, but it looks extremely similar to the Record #4.
Pure C-R-A-P !Maybe so, but I got a Low Angle block plane this summer of that brand.. (I was broke so I could not get a better one).. I just needed one for some stock I had and I never had one before..About what I expected for the price. I did have to lap the bottom a bit.. (I have seen worse) and the blade on my Tormek..Work as good as any other of my Pure C-R-A-P !... LOL....For what it is it worked well for MY job and saved money I don't have..PS NOT gettin' on you case... Well, Just a bit....
I haven't used a Groz but I've looked at them in the store. I'd have to say they have the worst looking fit and finish I have seen. Everything about the planes was rough. Another choice for inexpensive planes are the Anants. I've been impressed with them. Their fit and finish is excellent, and the price is unbelievable.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I'd have to second your vote for Anants as a decent low cost plane. I'd been looking for a #8 jointer recently on eBay but got tired of seeing crappy, rusty old beasts going for ridiculous prices. I've got 8 or 9 LN's and a few LV's, but didn't want to fork out $400 for a LN #8 and LV's new LA-jointer wasn't out yet. So I took the plunge on a #8 Anant from Highland Hardware for $90. The blade took a fair amount of time to lap flat, but the sole is pretty flat (could use some minor lapping, but it's usable). There's too much backlash in the frog adjustment wheel, but IMHO that's a problem with all planes except LN's and LV's. The Anant was definitely usable after tuning up the blade. I was pleasantly surprised.Waddaya mean it wont fit through the door?
When I started getting into woodworking, earlier this year, I bought the Groz #5 Jack Plane. I had not used a hand plane since high school and didn't have the coin to take the plunge into a LV. I should have saved the money and put it toward an LV! I spent 3 hours trying to get the iron right, using a 1200/8000 water stone. The iron is real flexy, so it is a boatload of fun to sharpen and hone. But with all that said, I now know what I need in a plane and what I have to do to take care of it. I look at it as a learning experience, because I'm trying to put a positive spin on shelling out $50 for the thing. Since my tiny basement shop doesn't have room for a joiner, hand planes it is, with the Groz dropping in the batting order.
I bought one of their low-angle block planes a few months ago (only thing I could afford, and I didn't want to mess up the plane while tuning one for the first time). Tuning it took probably 3 hours. It does a decent job at taking slices with the grain. End grain is a pain in the ####. And since that is what low-angle planes are for...
One caveat, I've never used any other plane before, so I have no idea what it is like to use a good one.
These posts are about 5 years old - does anyone have any current opinions regarding Groz quality over the past 5 years? I don't have a lot of experience or know how to do the "tune up" that you all talk about nor the funds to go L-N etc.
I would pass on the Groz. If you are shopping for an ENTRY LEVEL plane that needs only a little work to get it going, you might consider the WoodRiver plane at Woodcraft -or- see what is for sale on either the SMC or WoodNet forums. If you purchase something used, you have the opportunity to acquire a vintage plane ready to go out of the box. I would lean toward option #2. Good luck on your hunting!
-Jerry
Thanks for the advise - I did pick up the woodriver #4 - I haven't used it yet (tonight!) but out of the box it has a really good look and feel. A lot of very positive feedback on these planes on http://www.sawmillcreek.org
By the way do you know how to get this new web site to notify you of replies? I check the box below but I never get notified!
OK, here is my take on the WR #4. I actually bought one about a year ago just to see what all the brouhaha on the forums was really about. After going over it carefully, the plane works extremely well - it's not a L-N or a vintage Bedrock - but it works so well that I kept it and I use it often. My "go to" #4 planes are generally type 8 to 11 Stanley's: I like the light weight, but the WR is a good user.
Anyway, I set up my WR by cleaning off all the shipping grease and honing the blade. The blade on mine was slightly out of square and the back needed extra work to get it flat. The chipbreaker needed to be squared up and polished. That was about it. So... sharpen her up and give her a spin!
As far as how things work on this new forum platform: who knows? I'm spending very little time here on Knots as I found Sawmill Creek more to my liking a while back. I do miss many of my old Knots friends, but find them popping up on other forums, which is fun!
Good luck on the new plane!
-Jerry
Jerry,
I finally got my WR #4 out - lapped the sole and it was flat already - no work necessary.
Blade was square, chipper was sq and flat. I spent a few minutes on the blade - now I am a long way from good we these things - but I was pleased. It was actually fun to use. I flattened some ash and found it producing very thin and clean shavings. Again was impressed with the plane - going to work on my hand tool skills!
Way to go!!
-Jerry
I have been a woodworker/cabinetmaker for over 40 years. I own Lie Nielsen, Veritas. 100 year old Stanley Bailey's and Bedrock, Woodcraft Wood River and Groz. Other than the Veritas they all needed tuning upon receipt. The only complaint I have with the Groz is the quality of the blade. But for the low low price I can certainly live with sharpening the blade a bit more frequently until I have to replace it with a Veritas, Lie Nielsen or Hock blade. If you need to flatten the sole or true the sides (which I didn't) all you have to have is a piece of quarter inch glass or other flat surface twice as long as the sole and use Mirka Gold adhesive backed 36 or 40 grit abrasive strips which are used in auto body work and are about 18 inches long (you can place them end to end as needed for the length of the sole) and using moderate pressure get the sole/side flat in about 20 minutes tops. Anyone who says 0.003 inches flatness is not acceptable doesn't know what they are talking about. I usually tune mine to 0.0015, but if it started at 0.003 I wouldn't even bother--a waste of time.
I appear to be quite late to the party. In a moment of weakness, I bought a Groz, low angle block plane, four years ago. They definitely appear not to have a quality control division. Judging by the previous comments, it is the luck of the draw. The castings and millings are terrible. The blade depth adjustment knob keeps falling off. The base required much flattening, as did the blade. The adjustable throat comes nowhere near the blade edge and the lateral adjustment is useless. I give seminars on plane tuning and sharpening, to a senior's workshop. Never the less, my masochistic side has prevailed and I have committed to more hours to make to try to make the plane usable.
Further, I made a deal with a friend, a few years ago, to tune up two Groz planes in exchange for lumber. She was a Forester who wanted to become a professional cabinet maker. Guess who came ahead on the deal? Unless their quality has improved substantially, in recent years, their hand tools are more likely to discourage beginning wood workers than getting them started.
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