Replies

1. 
   bduffin104 | Jun 21, 2010 12:38am | #1

   I just made some lipped blind DT drawers with a Porter Cable DT jig. I ran the drawer front and the drawer sides seperately because you have to slide the drawer front out past the template fingers by the width of the drawer lip, making the pins extra deep if you will. I then cut the drawer lip after the DT. Then you run the drawer side DTs as you would normally using a sacrificial back up piece instead of a drawer front.

   Hope that made sense.

   Bret

   
1. 
   James R. | Jun 21, 2010 12:45am | #2

   lipped half blind

   Bret:

   My problem is I already cut the lip.

   Jim

1. 
   bduffin104 | Jun 21, 2010 02:49am | #3

   Should still work. Might get some tear out. Or you could glue the lip back on and cut it back off when done with DT.

   Bret

2. 
   Frank Vucolo | Jun 21, 2010 10:16am | #4

   Same as half blinds without the rabbet

   Hi Jim,

   The process is the same as cutting half blinds without the rabbet. It just compromoses how much of the pin board can be cut with your saw. The shallower the rabbet, the more of the line can be sawn.

   There is a good video on it here https://www.finewoodworking.com/subscription/skillsandtechniques/skillsandtechniquesarticle.aspx?id=30002 by Chris Gochnour.

   He chisels away all the waste, but another technique is to use a drill press with a forstner bit to remove a lot of the socket material before chiseling.

   Either way, it's going to come down to basic technique: saw to a line - sharp chisel - patience.

   It's worth the effort!

   Frank

1. 
   James R. | Jun 22, 2010 02:13am | #6

   Frank:

   I checked out Gochnour's method and it looks like it should work.  I'm just not sure how many trial runs I'll have to go through to get it right or at least close.  I'm also going to hit Mel up and see how he does his.

   Thanks for the tip.

   Jim

   My memory's good, it's just short.

3. 
   9619 | Jun 21, 2010 10:54pm | #5

   Jim,

   I just made a little cabinet with three drawersa. The drawer fronts are lipped and joined to the drawer sides usinq half blind dovetails. I cut them by hand. There are two styles for doing this -- German and English. The difference is in making the sawcuts on the pins in the drawer fronts. The Germans made long cuts that scarred the inside face of the drawer fronts. The English made saw cuts so small that no scarring was done. They did the cutting of the pins was done mostly with chisels. I used the English method.

   If you are interested, I would be willing to post photos, and provide details. I believe that doing this joinery by hand will be easier than trying to use a router and a jig.

   Mel

1. 
   James R. | Jun 22, 2010 02:14am | #7

   Mel:

    

    I need all the help I can get, so please, post away.  I'm always open to learning techniques others have used successfully.

   Thanks,

   Jim

   My memory's good, it's just short.

    

    

4. 
   Frank Vucolo | Jun 22, 2010 08:55am | #8

   Jim,

   Try practicing on some half blind dovetails without the lip. It's the same process except the lip limits the amount you can cut.

   The smaller you make the lip, the more room you will have to saw. However, the smaller you make the lip, the closer the tolerance has to be when you fit the drawer. You may be committed to the 1/4" lip for design purposes at this point, but knocking it down to 3/16 will make a difference when you saw.

   Keep working at it; the reward is worth the effort!

   Frank

1. 
   James R. | Jun 22, 2010 01:46pm | #9

   Frank:

   Thanks again for keeping in touch, however, you're correct about being committed to the 1/4" lip.  I'll keep at it though.  I'm a reasonably patient guy.

   Jim

   My memory's good, it's just short.

5. 
   idafleetdoc | Jun 22, 2010 06:29pm | #10

   Half-blind Dovetails

   I built Chris Gochnour's apothocary with twelve drawers which were all cut by hand. The drawers are lipped also. I cheated on the half blinds. With your bandsaw you might be able to cut the drawer front off and then cut your dovetails as  a through joint. Then glue the fronts back on the completed drawers. That is how I did mine and I still use the same procedure with all my half-blind dovetailed lipped drawers.

   
1. 
   James R. | Jun 22, 2010 07:00pm | #12

   halfblind dovetails

     idafleetdoc: 

   I like your idea but I am past being able to re-saw my drawer fronts.  I would basically have to buy all new wood for the fronts some of which are 3' long and that would be a waste of good cherry.  I'll keep that in mind though for next time.

   Thanks,

   Jim

   My memory's good, it's just short.

6. 
   9619 | Jun 22, 2010 06:50pm | #11

   Jim,
   My iPad won't let me
   Jim,

   My iPad won't let me upload photos. Darn! Oh well, you have seen photos of

   Lipped drawers with half lap dovetails. My suggestion is to read a little. .... Not too much. Then cut a set of half lap dovetails on some scrap. Rob Cosman has a set of DVDs on dovetails, and the advanced one covers had lap. There are literally hundreds of deacriptions of how to do this, including a few in articles in FWW. After you chop a one set by hand, it all becomes clear. And it does not take long. Then go to Google and search on

   "half lap dovetails lipped drawers". Read any two or three. You will find that it essentially the same as if the drawers are not lipped. Thnn chop a set on some scrap. I wouldn't use a saw for the pins (drawer front). Just chop them with sharp chisels. If you use the saw, you cant cut very deeply, so skip it.

   After cutting onerous or two on scrap, you will have the confidence to do them on your drawer fronts.

   I found it convenient to have a fishtail chisel to get into the corners of the half lap pins, so I bought a cheap chisel and ground one that worked well. Yoau caa use a pair of skew chisels. You can buy a dovetail (double skewed) chisel from Lie Nielsen.

   After you cut a few half lap dovetail joints, the mystery goes away. It is much easier and faster and more flexible then using a jig, INHO.

   If you run into questions, write to me. Happy to help.

   Mel

1. 
   James R. | Jun 22, 2010 07:35pm | #13

   Lipped half blind

   Mel:

   Thanks for the tips.  I'm going to put everyone's tips to use tomorrow afternoon and see how it goes.  With so much advice hopefully I'll get the job done.

   I'll let you know if I have a problem.

   Jim

   My memory's good, it's just short.

1. 
   bduffin104 | Jun 23, 2010 09:34am | #14

   Hand work vs router

   Jim,

   When I first responded to your original post I thought your were trying to do this with a router jig. Since then the comments have been mostly in regards to hand cut DTs.

   I do prefer the look of a quality hand cut DT drawer but I find it interesting that most say they can cut them by hand faster and easier than with a router jig. Even if I've just got one drawer to build, it's way faster to use the router jig and if there is any quantity, it's no contest. I do seem to be in the minority with this opinion.

   The photos of the hand cut DTs show excellent quality workmanship. I doubt that it was done quickly.

   Bret

1. 
   RalphBarker | Jun 28, 2010 10:59am | #15

   the jig is up

   I'm with you on this one, Bret. But, I can see where hand-tool dovetailers feel that it takes too long to set up and "dial-in" the jig and routers to do precise DTs. I use a PC 4212 DT jig, which includes router-bit depth gauges on the templates. That feature provides much faster setup than the older-style jigs. But, you have to prep the pieces well in terms of consistent size and thickness, and design around the pattern of the template. Variable spacing (e.g. on the PC OmniJig and Leigh) adds another layer of complexity to the setup that is largely overcome when doing them by hand.